Evidence of meeting #94 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was energy.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Randal Froebelius  President and General Manager, Equity ICI Real Estate Services Inc., Building Owners and Managers Association International
Duncan Hill  Manager, Housing Needs Research, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
Benjamin Shinewald  President and Chief Executive Officer, Building Owners and Managers Association of Canada
Rob Bernhardt  Chief Executive Officer, Passive House Canada

11:25 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Building Owners and Managers Association of Canada

Benjamin Shinewald

Thank you.

The key message here is that new construction is a huge driver of the economy, and our members do that, but on the day-to-day operations, our core message is to resist the temptation to say that the new, shiny building is the best one. Sometimes they are; sometimes they aren't. It's how you operate it.

If you look at the cars on the streets, you see a Tesla or a Prius go by. If you're a car guy or a car woman, you say, “There goes an environmental car.” In fact, if that Tesla or that Prius has deflated tires, or the air conditioning is on but the windows are down, or they haven't changed their filters in a while, I can drive my humdrum Honda or Ford, or even my Mack truck—well, maybe not a Mack truck—more efficiently than the person who is driving the flashier car or that statement car more poorly.

The key way is, yes, to design buildings green, but then you must not stop the conversation and you must continue it and operate them green, and focus on operations, retrofits, and technologies. There's an axiom in our industry: the greenest building is the one that's already built.

There was an article in theGlobe a couple of days ago about 24 Sussex Drive. That house has a lot of commotion around it for a whole bunch of reasons. It's built, and with all the embedded environmental costs, it's always going to be a more efficient building than building something new.

I'll leave it at that.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

Thank you very much. Sorry for rushing.

11:25 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Building Owners and Managers Association of Canada

Benjamin Shinewald

Thank you for the time. It's great.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

I didn't really mean to impact in a negative way, but we do have a schedule.

I'd love to have Mr. Bernhardt share with us his statements, and then we'll move on to questions. Thank you.

11:25 a.m.

Rob Bernhardt Chief Executive Officer, Passive House Canada

Thank you very much, Madam Chair and committee members.

It's a pleasure to be here. I must say I arrived on somewhat short notice and haven't had time to translate materials and put it together in that way. If it's all right with you, we'll perhaps just have a bit of a conversation.

I do have some materials with me that we will be able to provide to committee members once we have them translated, but if afterwards any of you would like to see some of them, I have them with me here. There are a variety of graphs, documents, and collateral material and so on, so please feel free to chat after the meeting.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

I just want to clarify that point. You'll provide those to us as a committee via the clerk, and then he'll make sure he distributes them, just to be sure everybody will get them from you. Thank you.

11:25 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Passive House Canada

Rob Bernhardt

Okay. Thank you.

We, Passive House Canada, are a national, not-for-profit, membership-based organization with a mission to transform buildings across the country. We view our role, at this point, as largely supporting the implementation of the federal-provincial agreement that's been reached for the national strategy.

Our members are the market leaders. They are the building professionals, the architects, the engineers, the contractors, the developers, and the manufacturers who are today delivering projects that meet the level of efficiency that's being targeted in the 2030 model national building code. That's who we are. We are the ones who are doing it today. I actually think it's quite appropriate that we follow BOMA, because we see our role as delivering better buildings to their members—buildings that will be simpler and more affordable to operate. That's really where we fit in.

Perhaps two years ago in Canada, Passive House had hardly been heard of, and in a lot of circles that's still the case. The good news is that in the pipeline—there aren't that many built or finished yet—there are millions of square feet that are currently going through the permitting and development process, or are under construction. They are in all climate zones, other than the high Arctic. We don't yet have one in Resolute, but they're certainly in cold climate conditions all over. They're virtually all building types. We have institutional buildings—large rec centres, fire halls, and social housing—and they're spread across the country.

The name is Passive House. That's rather an unfortunate translation from another language. It means “building”, not “house”. It is something that is about all forms of buildings, and that's what we are now developing with our members. There are a number of high-rise projects in Vancouver that are currently going through permitting. Right now, in the city of Vancouver, 20% of their rezoning applications, which is most of the development in the city, are for Passive House projects. That's what's coming in through the pipeline. We're seeing that roll out in Toronto in a big way with larger-scale projects and developments there, and it won't be long before this standard of building starts to hit the market in force. That, I think, is a really good thing, for a variety of reasons.

I'll just take a few minutes to frame the issue, starting with some work we did with UN agencies in developing the UN framework guidelines for buildings. In that work, the UN, of course, has its sustainable development goals. Sustainable development goals, for them, include not just energy efficiency but also improving the quality of life in buildings. The quality of life includes things such as affordability, comfort, air quality, and simplicity in operation. That whole basket of goods is required for them to achieve their sustainable development goals.

We support that approach to buildings because, although there is the climate change imperative that is driving codes and standards, we also need consumer demand. The demand for better buildings that offer better comfort, better air, and are simple to operate is a crucial market factor in our minds. It's essential to keep both of those forces in mind. Better buildings are really a question of building physics, and inertia is a very powerful force in physics as well as in politics. To overcome the inertia, we need to marshal all available forces to drive the market transformation that is needed. That's why we urge that we not overlook the quality of life offered within buildings.

The question is, how do we do that? Again, if we look to the EU, they funded a research project back in the 1980s, asking how efficient buildings should be. Is there a sweet spot? They hired academics, largely physicists, to go around the world and study buildings to see if there was some sort of economic sweet spot. Typically, as you go up in efficiency, costs go up. You need to figure out what the point of diminishing returns actually is in practice, not according to some theoretical calculation.

What they noticed, simply by plotting the numbers of projects from around the world, was that the costs go up and up, but there is a spot at which, all of a sudden, costs drop. They inquired as to what the cause of that could be. It is that at that level of efficiency, the envelope is good enough that the envelope itself does most of the work. It is of high enough quality and it can be trusted by the mechanical engineers and so on, so they can properly size their equipment. The systems become much simpler. It's driven by simple physics—the heat-carrying capacity of air—and you can therefore keep a very comfortable environment, with all the exterior surfaces being warm and so on, without a high-power mechanical system.

That's one component of the affordability. The other component is that the mere fact of having to achieve that level of efficiency requires a simplification in design, because efficiency is first and foremost a question of design, to set the building up for success. It requires some innovation—some different ways of laying out floor plates and that type of thing—but that's what it is. We had those two factors driving this economic sweet spot, and the study then concluded that this was where it ought to be, because at that lower level of energy consumption, it's possible to meet the remaining demand through renewable sources—perhaps not on a per-building basis, but at the community level.

That was the level of efficiency that the study developed. That efficiency and those metrics are what formed the foundation of the Passive House building standard. It is a standard that was developed to answer that question. It was developed within the regulatory context, and I would suggest that it's the reason we see those metrics and that standard referenced as widely as we do around the world in the development of building standards. When we look at the metrics evolving within Build Smart, they actually mirror the Passive House metrics, and I would suggest it's for that reason.

At that level of efficiency, we also get the quality of life, so the two are related—they go hand in hand. That's really the magic of driving efficiency far enough: we get something that is affordable, that is demanded by consumers once they're aware of it, and it solves the climate change issue in terms of buildings.

That is the type of solution that's being looked at in a variety of circumstances, not just in Canada but around the world.

How does that relate to our national building strategy or net-zero-ready buildings? Those are, as I said, the metrics that are being incorporated. The functional definition of a net-zero-ready building within some building code is aligned with the Passive House standard, and we're seeing it roll out all over.

The key for market transformation, we would say, is to feed and follow the leaders, and they will figure it out. This isn't easy work. It is demanding and it requires innovation, but the industry leaders like doing it. They will figure it out, and they enable others to follow.

We're working very closely with the City of Vancouver in developing their centre of excellence. We believe that type of model is an excellent model. We're happy to provide more information on it, and we provide a national curriculum of education to train engineers and builders on how to do this.

Those sorts of mechanisms are really the key to success, whether we're talking new buildings or retrofits; they're really very similar.

I see the colour red is up, so I'll wrap up my comments there.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

Thank you very much, Mr. Bernhardt. Thank you for the work you're doing. It's a very exciting area.

We'll open to questions. I want to welcome Mr. Bezan and Mr. Viersen to the committee today.

We'll start with Mr. Bossio.

February 8th, 2018 / 11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON

Thank you very much, Chair. Thank you all very much for being here today. It's a great conversation. I apologize in advance for not being very well understood.

Where to begin? You talked about creating incentives through technology and training. Can you expand on that a bit, on the technology side? The training side I get—you know, operational training leads to.... But on the technology side, where do you see that the incentives can occur?

11:35 a.m.

President and General Manager, Equity ICI Real Estate Services Inc., Building Owners and Managers Association International

Randal Froebelius

Many owners of existing building stock take advantage of incentives to do the retrofits themselves. Often you will engage a third party consultant to come in and design that incentive and to in fact act as your liaison with the authority offering the incentive.

If we bolted on an added piece that made it much easier for training or added resources to the process that incorporated training into the actual rollout of the incentive that's being offered, it would be a big help to us. Also, some research on the training side would help. That could be done by our groups in NRCan or even CMHC, when they're designing a lot of these programs. They could just keep in mind that this gets us to a certain point, but what happens after that? What happens a year after that? What happens three years after that? How can we keep that all up to date, because staff changes as well, right? Is there a way to build it into the process so that we can keep it going throughout the life of the value of that project?

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON

From the technology standpoint, that could be whether it's heating, HVAC, lighting, IT systems in terms of building control systems, all of those different types of technologies—

11:40 a.m.

President and General Manager, Equity ICI Real Estate Services Inc., Building Owners and Managers Association International

Randal Froebelius

Right, and even in preventative maintenance.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON

—even energy generation types of systems that you don't see as much of today.

As I mentioned to you when we were talking to you earlier, my best friend is a builder. One of the things that drives him nuts is the duplication within the code itself. You want to go with a newer technology, but as soon as you go with that newer technology, you have to add the capability of the older technology as well, just in case somebody at some future date decides they want to go back to that.

11:40 a.m.

President and General Manager, Equity ICI Real Estate Services Inc., Building Owners and Managers Association International

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON

Can you address that? I don't know, and maybe it's not a fair question, but is there any kind of understanding as to how much that actually impacts the cost overall of a new development or a retrofit?

11:40 a.m.

President and General Manager, Equity ICI Real Estate Services Inc., Building Owners and Managers Association International

Randal Froebelius

As we were discussing, yesterday I attended the NRCan workshop at the EY Centre out by the airport. One of the things that was a common theme was the many new technologies that are on the cusp: air-source heat pumps, advances to ground-source heat pumps, and a lot of condensation or condensing-type boiler systems, etc. The example given was that people are worried that if they adopt those systems, insurance companies will still insist that there's a backup of a more traditional system.

The audience yesterday included people like me, but also contractors and designers. The feeling was that we have these technologies that are on the cusp—they might not be ready for tomorrow, but they're coming—but that an insurance company, a household insurance company, might say they love it and it's great that you're putting in that system, but they want you to have a backup as well. If you put in the backup, then you've really just duplicated what your original cost was.

The message I got yesterday was whether we can somehow make allowances or encourage someone like insurance providers to adapt to that type of situation. Is there a way we can bring everyone to the table to say that we're going to do this, but they're willing to accept the risk or something like that...?

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON

Quickly, on the passive homes side, the first time I read about passive homes was in George Monbiot's book Heat, back in 2005. He was talking about Germany and the explosion of passive homes there. It really addresses a lot more of the new home side. In Germany, I guess 33% of the energy needs to come from solar in new builds. Do you see, feasibly, from both a new home side and a retrofit side...do we have passive standards now for the retrofit side?

11:40 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Passive House Canada

Rob Bernhardt

Absolutely, and that's always been a fundamental component. In a few weeks I'm moderating a policy panel with the European Union in Munich on that very subject. With retrofits, you only get periodic times in the life cycle of a building to really work on the fundamental efficiency of the building, and then the key is to invest wisely so that you don't lock in emissions through half-measures. If you're going in and improving the envelope of the building, it's going to stay there for a long time. If you only go halfway, you've locked in high emissions. On the cost, once you're going in and redoing the cladding and so on, it doesn't cost much more to do it well. It costs a lot of money to do it, but not much more to do it well.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON

We have the passive standard and we have the BOMA standard. Should they both be written into the building code?

11:40 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Building Owners and Managers Association of Canada

11:40 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Passive House Canada

Rob Bernhardt

The code typically deals with building rather than operating, but with regard to commissioning and emissions and so on, that may be....

11:45 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Building Owners and Managers Association of Canada

Benjamin Shinewald

I would agree for sure.

11:45 a.m.

President and General Manager, Equity ICI Real Estate Services Inc., Building Owners and Managers Association International

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

Go ahead, Mr. Godin.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Gentlemen, thank you for being involved in this exercise. We are aware that this has been done in very tight deadlines, and we really appreciate your availability. You know your subject well, and we are very pleased.

My first question is for Mr. Hill from CMHC.

You mentioned in your presentation that CMHC is encouraging the development of green housing and that it has a premium refund program for borrowers of up to 25%.

How long has this program been around?