Environment Committee on Feb. 15th, 2018

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Exactly, but when we're talking about energy efficiency, one of your recommendations was to have mandatory standards in building codes that would push builders to build better buildings. That would allow a Canadian company to start manufacturing windows of a calibre similar to what you're importing, so that it drives the economy as well.

[Thomas Hewitt]

That's right.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Madam Chair, do I have any time left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Well, 20 seconds.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I'll take 20 seconds.

I'm sure you probably know—you speak of solar all the time—in Halifax we have Solar City. I was on council, and we brought that forward to the point where we can take the cost. We started with domestic hot water, and we've moved to PV, but we put the panels on the roof, do all the bureaucracy through the municipality, and then add it to the tax bill.

You're nodding your head, so you must know about that program.

[Thomas Hewitt]

I do indeed.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

It took us from worst to first in Canada for domestic hot-water panels.

[Thomas Hewitt]

I definitely applaud programs like that.

In Ontario—

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

So the municipalities have a really good role they can play in energy efficiency.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Here we are at the federal level, so we've got to focus.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I had 20 seconds.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Okay, I'm sorry. It's all good.

Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Gentlemen, thank you for lending yourselves to the exercise. I think this is very interesting information.

I will quickly put questions to the three witnesses in turn, beginning with Mr. Wong, by teleconference.

Mr. Wong, you mentioned in your presentation that you were ahead in 2000. I would like to know what the current situation is in 2018. Have you maintained your energy efficiency lead or are you at the bottom of the pack?

[Gary Wong]

That's a good question.

What I was trying to get at when I spoke of the evolution of the buildings that the social housing portfolio has produced over the decades is that ultimately what we're dealing with up here is trying to find the balance.

When you come up with a national standard, which you're trying to push the whole country towards, as we've talked about here—for example, a passive house standard, or a net zero standard, which is more current state of the art, let's say—the various jurisdictions have various abilities to actually implement such a thing. Down south, it may be a very reasonable goal, and as Mr. Hewitt pointed out, maybe even with building code changes, you can push the jurisdictions more down that road. The problem for us is that if you make things into national standards and they have to be applied right across the board, our capacity in the north is at a different level.

As Mr. Fournier pointed out, they designed and built that pilot project passive house, and it resulted in extremely thick walls to make those R values state of the art. It was a very good house.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Wong. I like your answer. Unfortunately, I have to stop here because I have other questions for your colleagues. Thank you for your answer. Perhaps we can continue later.

I'll now turn to you, Mr. Fournier.

You said that the most important thing at the moment is to meet the basic housing needs. Priorities need to be established. These people have to have decent housing. How can we manage that?

There is also an impact on costs. If you want to improve the energy efficiency of the buildings that go up, there are additional costs associated with that. What are these costs for the North? How are the priorities for affordable housing managed?

[Alain Fournier]

Here's the problem. If I raised the issue, it is because I'm looking for a solution.

This problem comes back every year as organizations or local governments have to allocate housing to different families. If, as the saying goes, money grew on trees, that would be the solution.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

That isn't the case, unfortunately.

[Alain Fournier]

Unfortunately, there aren't trees in Nunavik or Nunavut.

That's what Mr. Wong was saying. These communities have an extreme climate. As a result, the regions have always clearly been ahead of the rest of Canada in terms of energy efficiency, and I think they will always be to some extent.

The solution may be through some innovations, such as pilot projects for houses like the ones we did in Nunatsiavut. These projects have made it possible to change the way houses are built and also to teach entrepreneurs and the on-site workforce better, perhaps more efficient, but not necessarily more economical methods. The solution is not obvious.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

It isn't instantaneous.

Thank you very much.

Mr. Hewitt, I will continue with you.

After listening to you, I see that the technology exists. You suggested introducing stricter standards, which will result in lower product costs in the markets. For example, the energy-efficient windows ordered in Europe are cheaper than those here, even if the associated transportation costs are taken into account.

As you mentioned, European standards are much stricter. Would tightening our own standards be a solution? What are the short- and medium-term consequences for construction costs? This would affect the pocketbook of the buyer or resident.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

You have one minute.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I'm sorry, Mr. Hewitt.

[Thomas Hewitt]

I absolutely believe that if we raise the standards on these items, we'll get better products at similar prices to what we're already getting. That's the bottom line. There are going to be increases as we move on in certain things. For example, HRVs are now required in homes, but were not required five years ago. That's an extra cost. We also know it's required for good health, so it's something that needs to be done.

There are also other things that are mandated that make no sense at all, which should be removed. That way, we can give and take. For example, right now there is a requirement for waste-water heat recovery in residential homes. Anybody who has done the economics on that particular item realizes that it does not have a good return on investment. We need to be very careful of what we require in these homes and what we don't.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Thank you very much.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Hewitt.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

You're welcome.

Mr. Cannings.