Environment Committee on March 1st, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

I'm fine if you have something to add to the discussion.

[Norman Shields]

It has not been our practice for board members to hire staff and hire people to employ them. I think what this amendment would require us to do if adopted would be to prepare a schedule of potential administrative expenses that would be ratified by the Governor in Council and then that schedule would guide expense claims.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

So for my understanding, the point here was to clean up the fact that there were identified expenses that were no longer in practice, and it was to put in a more modern interpretation of what would be included, but the details or the terms of reference for becoming a board member and what you can apply for will be identified within the report, and you will do that through the Governor in Council. Is that right? That's what I'm hearing. That seems reasonable to me.

[Rachel Grasham, Director Policy, Legislative and Cabinet Affairs, Parks Canada Agency]

Yes, it would be subject to an order in council process, which goes to Treasury Board for approval before being recommended to the Governor in Council.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

So, the purpose of this is to clean up archaic reference that's in existence that needs to be brought up to modernization.

Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Madam Chair, imagine the following situation. Let's say that—

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

We're at 12 and we had said that we going to move to another part of business. I am thinking it's in order to extend but I need the agreement to extend into the second period to carry on with this.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

We have only a few more minutes. I move that we extend it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

That's up to you guys. I'm at your pleasure.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

We can go on the back end of the meeting if we need to finish the estimates.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

All those in favour of doing that?

(Motion agreed to)

We'll carry on.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you.

I was about to give you a hypothetical situation. Let's say I was appointed to the board tomorrow morning and I asked my staff to do some research to help me perform my work for the board effectively. Will I be able to claim those costs? What process is there to limit expenses?

[Norman Shields]

Well, I think it's what I said before. I think the process would be that there would be an Order in Council and that would include a schedule that would outline what types of expenses can be claimed. So, before asking people to do work for you expecting to be reimbursed you would want to make sure that you have the right to be reimbursed under the schedule that would be established under the Order in Council.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Okay. Hang on Mr. Deltell.

Do you want to carry on?

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Shields, that means that, if I were able to convince the Governor in Council, I would be entitled to claim unlimited expenses under the guidelines established by the Governor in Council.

[Rachel Grasham]

So, the order in council process would be brought forward. The minister would bring forward the proposal to the Treasury Board process and then it would be recommended to the Governor in Council process. There would be a static list of eligible expenses for administrative assistance and in connection with the business of the board, so it wouldn't be a situation in which one-at-a-time or ad hoc expenses that were outside of the scope of that order in council and the schedule that we established could be submitted

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Mr. Deltell.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Since Mr. Godin is on a roll, I will let him finish. Then I will have some other comments.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Deltell.

So this is how I understand the situation. It is a political decision. It is political or administrative.

[Rachel Grasham]

I think the development of that schedule would be consistent with Treasury Board policy and directives regarding reimbursement. I mean, it's a bit hypothetical at this point, but the idea of having a fixed schedule that was approved by the Governor in Council would mean that ad hoc expenses could not be submitted. They would be very tied to that schedule.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Let's go to Mr. Sopuck and then back to you. Well, you passed your spot. So let me do that.

Mr. Stetski.

[Wayne Stetski, NDP, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

I just want to clarify that this last clause basically just brings it into line with what happens with other boards that the government manages.

Is that correct, Mr. Shields or Ms. Grasham?

[John Aldag, Liberal, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

You know what? In this case I didn't look at other boards. I was simply working with legal to say that we have an outdated practice that's captured within the Historic Sites and Monuments Act of Canada: $30 a year is laughable in 2018 terms, so I said, “Give me the wording, let's find the wording to try to make that a meaningful clause and that it will carry on into the future instead of becoming outdated again in two or three years, or 10 years.” This was simply the wording that I was advised works, and a lot of the wording we've chosen is based on other legislation.

I can't to speak to where that came from. This was simply the update.

[Wayne Stetski, NDP, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

No, I was going to address the question to Ms. Pearce, perhaps, since you mentioned legal. Does this now reflect current practice for boards?