Environment Committee on March 1st, 2018

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

I disagree very strongly with your view that there can't be enough overrepresentation of any group. What would happen, in terms of the decisions and recommendations, is that there would certainly be bias in a certain direction.

For example, in my own constituency, the Ukrainian community has a history that's both epic and tragic at the same time. There is a serious under-representation, in my view, of Ukrainian culture, in terms of representation.

This business of picking representative boards and arbitrarily deciding what's overrepresented or under-represented—and again I'm not being pejorative—is a very difficult thing to do. It's not easy. What you're embarking on is not easy.

I think as this bill moves forward and representatives are chosen, all biases need to be left at the door. We want historic and commemorative sites that truly represent Canada in all its aspects.

How will you deal with this?

[John Aldag, Liberal, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

That's where the selection process is really critical, in making sure that, as you say, people are able to represent the area of expertise that they bring, yet be objective.

We've had 150 years of exclusion of that indigenous voice from commemorations in Canada, so this is a recognition of that absence and the special relationship we have with indigenous peoples. I think with the additions of these voices, we are able to still represent and commemorate a whole range of Canadian stories, not just aboriginal ones.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Do you see—

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Joël had his finger up, then we'll go back to you. It's up to you guys.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Go ahead.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

I didn't see it. That's fine.

Do you see a role for “qualified amateur historians”? That's the only word I can think of. There may be a better one.

In communities right across Canada, as you well know, there are people who have taken a deep and abiding interest in the histories of their regions. They may not have the “academic” qualifications, but their deep local knowledge is something the country should tap into.

Do you see people like that being part of this board?

[John Aldag, Liberal, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

I think that goes beyond what I can speak to in this capacity. There is a selection process, and I would say it would have to remain with the board, and ultimately the minister, to deem who is qualified for these appointments.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

I was just asking for your opinion. It seems to me that qualified local historians with a deep knowledge of a certain area should be considered.

[John Aldag, Liberal, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

I think expertise comes in a wide range of forms.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Thanks I appreciate that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Okay.

Go ahead, Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Madam Chair, I would like to pick up on the topic my colleague Mr. Sopuck raised.

Mr. Aldag, you said you have established selection criteria. So far, so good. As far as increasing indigenous representation goes, we have the same objective. That said, when a bill is drafted, the necessary mechanisms must be included to eliminate as many grey areas as possible.

In reading this, I am not convinced that the level of representation will be controlled. It is all relative. What does having more or less representation mean? I think better guidelines are needed.

I would like to hear your thoughts on that.

[John Aldag, Liberal, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

I actually don't know if I can go any further than what I've said. I think I've tried to respond as best I can. This is the wording that I was able to come up with, with the input of our legal experts, on how to get to the best points in implementing recommendation 79.1, so I've had to rely on the guidance of our legal counsel on how to word that, and this is what I am able to put forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

I want to give an opportunity to the experts at the table.

Is there anything they'd like to share with us on this discussion point?

[Norman Shields]

I suppose all I would add is that in the selection process for the members of the Historic Sites and Monuments Board of Canada is currently as John has described it. There are the three federal-level members, and then there are the provincial and territorial members. With this bill, if it is enacted, there would be indigenous representation.

All of those would then go through the government's open and transparent and merit-based Governor in Council appointments process. There are notices of opportunities that outline the type of criteria that people are expected to meet to be able to serve on the board, and all residents of Canada are eligible to apply for those positions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Okay, thank you.

Mr. Kent is next.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

This is a question arising from John's opening remarks, as the sponsor of the bill, regarding the Stanley Park plaque sitting today in a shed because of challenges by first nations communities. I know there have been any number of these situations over the years with other communities—the Ukrainian community with regard to the heritage plaque in Banff—and others.

I'm just wondering, Mr. Shields, how many historic site plaques are under challenge at the moment, or have yet to be placed on the sites for which they were designed.

[Norman Shields]

I'd be speculating on the answer to that question. The government has been implementing a plaque of celebration strategy. We've unveiled a number of plaques over the past number of years and we're continuing to work on that this year and next year.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Peter, can you get at the point? We're trying to get—

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

To the point, are there other first nations challenges for historic sites? This springs from John's challenge for the Stanley Park—

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Yes, it's justification for why we're trying to—

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Yes, exactly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Okay, fair enough—and the answer is...?

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

In other words, are there other plaques for which the wording has yet to be resolved, and the benefit of having three additional members of the board might speed that course?

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

That would be helpful.