Environment Committee on Feb. 20th, 2020

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Okay, I understand. That answers my questions.

Mr. Saini, do you have anything to add?

[Raj Saini, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Scarpaleggia.

I have a question on the international dialogue that we're having. As we know, at COP21 there was a debate on article 6: article 6.2, and beyond that, article 6.4.

With these two articles, I think we lost—I'm not saying Canada, but collectively as a world—a huge opportunity, because these internationally transferred mitigation outcomes could have been used as leverage, not only for helping developing countries, but also for helping the companies we have here in Canada.

There has been a failure to reach an agreement—COP22, COP23, COP24 and COP25—and I'm wondering what the issue is, per se, and whether there is an opportunity for Canada to show leadership. Four years have gone by. With article 6.2, and especially article 6.4, when you're inviting the private sector to participate in these outcomes—

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Do you want them to answer the question?

[Raj Saini, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

You have 20 seconds, please.

[Catherine Stewart]

Thank you very much for your question. As chief negotiator for climate change, I am certainly very keen to see us get good rules on article 6. I think the key part of our negotiations is to ensure that whatever we do, if there are internationally transferred mitigation outcomes, we need to make sure that what we are trading are real and verifiable emissions. Part of the problem in our negotiations is how we do that and ensure that we have a credible system set up. There are some parties that want to bring credits in from the Kyoto protocol era. A lot of those credits, frankly, are very questionable, and there is a big push to bring these into the new system. That is one area where we are having difficulties.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you. I am sorry to cut you off, but I have to look after the others as well.

Madame Pauzé, you have two and a half minutes.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Many very interesting things have been said. I would like to come back to a question by one of my Liberal colleagues.

Regarding climate change, it has been said that one of the areas where the most progress was being made was electricity. In Quebec, we have never had coal. I know that Ontario has closed coal-fired power plants, and that has clearly improved things, but it was several years ago already. Have there been any more recent changes?

Of course, we are thinking about the electrification of transportation, but we are still far from putting words into action. There may be more real and faster measures in that area. The issue of electricity also affects transportation, one of the sectors that emit the most greenhouse gases. It is said that progress has been made. I like that, and I would like to be positive. Right now, I am not, but perhaps your answer will help me become more positive.

[Matt Jones]

Maybe I could start, and I will turn to my colleague Helen as well.

We see electrification as one of the key pathways to deeper emission reductions. You are correct that the regulations phasing out coal-fired electricity were introduced and then amended and strengthened in the past, most recently as part of the pan-Canadian framework.

There are a number of other initiatives that target the electricity sectors. Colleagues at NRCan have programs on smart grid, battery storage and other things that can help improve the utilization and optimization of the electricity system for vehicles, for movements, everything from meters and pumps to other things that consume energy. That can be either fossil-fuelled or electric.

If it's electric and comes from sustainable sources like hydro, it's an opportunity to achieve quite significant emission reductions in the future. We are very focused, through infrastructure investments on the grid and through programming, on making greater use of renewable energy, non-emitting energy in this country.

Helen, did you have something to add?

[Helen Ryan]

Yes. I would add that it is true, in Ontario, coal-fired plants have closed, but many exist elsewhere in Canada. We have regulations that require them to close by 2030 or by the end of their normal life cycle. That is why my colleague said that there were measures in place, but that the closures have not yet occurred. That brings significant reductions. A number of our regulations have been implemented, and reductions will follow. Among other things, we are talking about regulations on methane in the oil and gas sector.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Okay.

I have another question....

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Madame Pauzé, two and a half minutes goes by very fast.

Ms. Collins.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

My first question is for Ms. Stewart. First, thank you for your work at COP25. I saw the valiant efforts of our Canadian negotiating team.

We are expected to come back in 2020 with enhanced NDCs and support and enhance the federal climate ambition. Where are we with that?

[Catherine Stewart]

I can speak to COP26 and what we expect there, and then maybe I'll turn to Matt Jones, who can talk about enhancing NDCs.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

If possible, I do have one other question.

[Catherine Stewart]

The COP presidency, the U.K., has not formally given us their priorities, but we do expect that ambition will be a very prominent theme, and countries have already indicated their intention to come forward with more ambitious plans, like net zero.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Have we indicated the same thing?

[Catherine Stewart]

We have not.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Out of curiosity, are fossil fuel subsidies and subsidy reform going to be included in our NDCs?

[Matt Jones]

The exact nature of what we will be putting into the NDC is a hot topic right now, and we have a lot of analysis, engagement and work to do to inform every piece of that.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Is it under way?

[Matt Jones]

Yes.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

This is my last question. My understanding is that we're not currently in line with the G20 global agreement around inefficient and efficient subsidies as a definition.

Ms. Geller, you gave a few examples, but what is the exact definition we're using?

[Hilary Geller]

There is no definition that the G20 gave, so every country is coming up with its own definition.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

What is ours?