Environment Committee on Feb. 20th, 2020

[Matt Jones]

The most recent report went out in January, I believe, or the end of December, which showed 77 megatonnes of emissions unaccounted for with definitive measures. It's important to note that's based on our modelling of projections.

Not everything is modellable. Investments in clean technologies we know will help decrease emissions over time, but it's difficult to forecast how much and how fast and at what rate. Also, there are significant investments in public transit, but until all those projects are known with some specificity, it's difficult to forecast what the resulting emission reductions will be.

Some important elements are not included there. The government has been quite clear that additional measures are needed to continue to make progress. We're also optimistic that our provincial counterparts will continue to implement effective policies to be able to help Canada collectively close that gap.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

In following up on that last point, the government has also said it intends to exceed the 2030 Paris targets. Do you know by how much it intends to exceed them?

[Matt Jones]

This is a subject of discussion and analysis right now. I think the government has been quite clear about its ambition. Certainly, if you look at the science, the need to drive further emission reductions is certainly there for all countries. The definitive figures, in terms of a sharp definition of what “exceed” means, those decisions haven't been made yet. We're doing analyses, and we intend to do some engagement with people on that as we move forward. We're preparing to do that work now.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Can you give me examples of what's being considered to help achieve whatever that definitive target might be?

[Matt Jones]

We're just initiating our analysis now to help identify some potential possibilities for achieving additional emission reductions. We're starting with the mandate commitments. A number of measures are in various mandate letters for many departments, everything from electric buses to retrofitted buildings, tree planting and so forth. We're certainly starting there. We'll be doing analyses to see how far that gets us, and what, if anything, beyond that will be required.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

It sounds to me as though you're suggesting that the focus would be on investments in technology, as opposed to, for example, an increase in the carbon tax or something like that.

[Matt Jones]

The final decisions about what measures to close the gap will be in that package moving forward haven't been made. We're looking at all policy tools, including our existing funding programs. Most funding programs are time-limited. When they come up for renewal, are there opportunities to change their terms and make them more focused on the greatest sources of emissions and so forth? We are looking at the mandate commitments and our existing policy suite.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Are you also looking at private sector businesses, green technologies that are actually using private sector investment? Would you try to highlight them as well?

[Matt Jones]

Yes, for sure.

I think there's great enthusiasm for the potential of homegrown Canadian technologies that can drive emission reductions. One aspect of the PCF, one of the four key pillars, was clean technology. Our view was that Canada has invested in research, but what about deployment? What about demonstration? What about export?

There has been quite a focus on accelerated deployment of clean technologies, ideally Canadian technologies, that can hopefully be exported around the world.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you.

Mr. Scarpaleggia, you have five minutes.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Thank you.

Earlier, we were talking about....

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Sorry, I have the wrong guy.

Mr. Baker, you have five minutes.

Mr. Scarpaleggia, you had the floor first.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Nice try, Francis.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

I thought we were on the third round. I apologize.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thanks very much, Chair.

Thank you all very much for being here.

It's interesting. Briefings such as this, conversations such as this, allow us to go a mile wide and an inch deep, and you can see some of us trying to scratch the surface and go a little deeper.

I have questions on two topics. Hopefully we have enough time in the five minutes to cover both of them at least at a high level.

I represent a riding called Etobicoke Centre. This is a suburban riding in the 416 area, in the city of Toronto. Back in 2013, there was flooding throughout the GTA. That was well covered; you would be aware of that. Etobicoke was hit particularly hard. There was flooding inside people's homes, transit was shut down, and so on.

I understand that the city is responsible for mitigating the risk associated with flooding such as that. There's the Toronto and Region Conservation Authority. There are a number of entities involved in that.

To what degree, if at all, is the federal government involved in mitigating that? What are some of the steps the federal government takes to do so?

[Diane Campbell]

There are many factors that contribute to flooding in an urban area. We really monitor the weather. In that flooding incident you described, we had a very intense precipitation event. Basically, that water is flowing through a concrete landscape that hasn't been built in a manner such that it is actually able to absorb that amount of water. In order to mitigate this, we have to have effective planning that starts within a municipal planning context, and it has to take into account what types of conditions would exacerbate or create the risk. This is where the culmination of the information—in our case, us working with the conservation authorities and working with some of the cities to provide the right type of data and assess the risks—is part of the chain.

The other part of it is really the longer-term view of the municipalities or cities with respect to climate change and adaptation. Cities can be quite proactive in that sense, looking at what their adaptation planning needs to address over time. Having good information from us and others on the nature of extreme events and how they could affect their cityscape is part of what needs to be done.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you.

The second topic goes back to climate change. Mr. Jones, I think this is a question for you, but please feel free to delegate it to others if appropriate.

I wonder if you could share briefly where we're making the most progress in terms of policy development, but especially in terms of execution, the execution that's required to make sure that we tackle climate change.

If I think about what I hear from constituents in my riding, to them climate change is the existential issue of our time, so I'd be curious if you could share briefly where we're making the most progress.

[Matt Jones]

I'd be happy to. I'll try to be brief. That's certainly a big question.

In terms of emission reductions, we do have some good public data on this that we could provide. I think the electricity sector is one where we have seen the most significant reductions, mostly from a switch from coal to alternative sources, everything from natural gas to renewables. Frankly, most of our emission reductions have come from the electricity sector, although there have been reductions across most sectors of the economy.

The transportation sector is one where we've been able to stop the growth and achieve some reductions. That's not an easy thing, given the current that we're swimming against there, where the number of vehicles on the road and the amount of freight shipped have increased over time.

On the flip side, one of the areas where we do need to make more progress is really around the question of adaptation: how we're adapting to the impacts of climate change. The science is clear that there are impacts in all scenarios. There's a certain amount of warming baked in, no matter how global emissions go in the future, and that's an important area.

My colleague Helen is reminding me that methane emissions are another area where we have made some good progress and are continuing to do so. In many countries, that's generally considered a low-hanging fruit in terms of low-cost emission reduction opportunities. Methane is a powerful greenhouse gas. If you're able to capture it and keep it from being vented to the atmosphere, it is a saleable commodity, of course, so that is an important area.

I'll maybe turn to colleagues if there are other topics.

[Hilary Geller]

Maybe I'll just add that—

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

We'd love to hear your input, but we're running out of time. You can answer it when somebody else gets it.

Madam Findlay, you have five minutes.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Thank you.

If I understood your testimony correctly, Mr. Jones, the government has stated that it wants to exceed the 2030 targets, but we actually don't know what that looks like. That analysis has just begun, and that is not something measurable or specific that we can speak to today. Is that correct?

[Matt Jones]

I would say that certainly we've been looking to exceed the target for some time. Actually, we've talked about meeting and exceeding the target for some time. That is certainly the goal. We have a collection of policy measures in the pan-Canadian framework that was originally intended to meet the target in full. There have been, since that time, various factors that have worked for and against progress on this issue. Certainly some provincial measures have been eliminated, which has necessitated greater action, ideally by all levels of government but certainly by the federal government—

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Excuse me, you said it was an ambition, and I understand that, but you've also said that you don't know what that specifically looks like today. You're just working on a number of measures. It kind of depends on how it all plays out. Is that correct?

[Matt Jones]

We have the existing suite of measures, which is the foundation, which in our original expectation was going to take us all the way to the target. We realize now, with the various developments since that time, that additional measures are needed. The government has signalled that in this mandate it intends to bring forward new measures in order to meet that target and to exceed it. At this stage, I can't tell you what those additional measures will be, other than the ones that are in the mandate commitments, which are in the process of being implemented now.