Evidence of meeting #13 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was witnesses.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:40 p.m.
Director General, Risk Analysis Directorate, Department of the Environment
I'm going to have to refer that to Ms. Pelletier to answer.
5:40 p.m.
Chief Enforcement Officer, Enforcement Branch, Department of the Environment
We do have a group within the department that actually asks who is responsible for certain files, and we are the current staff on hand for these files.
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Was there any discussion about inviting the Public Prosecution Service so that it could speak to Crown discretion and whether or not it had the resources to pursue the case?
5:40 p.m.
Chief Enforcement Officer, Enforcement Branch, Department of the Environment
No, we have not, because the conversation was about the enforceability.
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
I would simply say that I'm very disappointed, because we can't have a proper discussion on whether or not there was compliance and whether it was prosecuted. We do know a law was broken. We do know that the facts say that. We've had questions about the proportionality. We've had questions about the length of time. To me, four years is an indication that perhaps it was not resourced.
Mr. Chair, I have to say I am terribly disappointed by the choice of witnesses today. That is not a reflection on the expertise or the service of these public servants, but I have to say I'm disappointed because it doesn't speak to the motion that was put forward to this committee.
5:40 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Schiefke Liberal Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I'd also like to add my thanks to the witnesses for being here with us and for sharing their thoughts as well as their expertise. I'd also like to thank them for all the work that they do every single day behind the scenes, which perhaps goes unnoticed by Canadians, in their efforts to protect Canadians and protect our environment.
My first question will be for Madam Pelletier, and perhaps could also be applied to all of the witnesses who are joining us this evening.
Do you think that the current laws, penalties and all the tools at your disposal are effective at protecting the health and safety of Canadians at large, and also in incenting actors not to break those laws? If yes, why? If not, what can we do as a government to assist you and your team in the invaluable work that you do? Madam Pelletier, as you know, we are looking into how we can reinforce and strengthen CEPA.
5:45 p.m.
Chief Enforcement Officer, Enforcement Branch, Department of the Environment
Thank you.
In the current situation, do we have the proper tools? I believe we do have the proper tools. The court cases actually show that we do have the proper tools and we're bringing the regulatees back into compliance through the diversity of tools that the enforcement officers do have.
There is the CEPA review that is coming—and we've talked briefly about that—which will provide us with an opportunity to really engage with the community, but also we work hand in hand with the branch that does the CEPA review and we will have an opportunity to bring our comments on board.
Donald, would you like to further that discussion, please?
5:45 p.m.
Director General, Environmental Enforcement, Department of the Environment
Absolutely. The penalties associated with CEPA enforcement serve multiple purposes, one of which is deterrence, not only to the individuals or companies that were the subject of non-compliance but also to others in the same industry.
As you know, the Environmental Enforcement Act review was begun in December of last year as part of the regular cycle. Perhaps I can turn to my colleague Ms. Rogers to provide a little bit more detail on that.
February 22nd, 2021 / 5:45 p.m.
Hannah Rogers Executive Director, Environmental Enforcement, Enforcement Branch, Department of the Environment
In 2009, Bill C-16, which was known as the Environmental Enforcement Act, made a number of changes to the enforcement scheme of CEPA, and a number of other pieces of legislation.
We are now 10 years past that point. There was a requirement to do a review, to make sure that fine amounts and sentencing provisions are effective, and consistent with public values, the economy and other relevant circumstances over time.
We have to do this on a periodic basis. We are at that time right now. That review was launched in December, and it's going to take about a year. We're gathering input from stakeholders, indigenous partners and the public. Once that has been completed, and there is a report, there will be an opportunity for the government to consider its findings, and look at it in tandem with the committee's 2017 recommendations. It can then make some recommendations in terms of whether there are changes that should be made as we go forward.
That's a quick summary of what is coming over the next year on the EEA review.
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Schiefke Liberal Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
I have another question regarding audits.
We know that the Office of the Auditor General conducts audits on the enforcement of the Canadian Environmental Protection Act. Can you please explain what Environment and Climate Change Canada has done to respond to these audits over the years? Are they effective, and are there any key findings or results from these audits when they are done?
5:45 p.m.
Director General, Risk Analysis Directorate, Department of the Environment
The CESD audits and the audits of the Auditor General are a key part of helping us to prioritize what we need to do with our programs.
Over the last couple of years, the main thing we've done is implement the risk assessment directorate, which is going to provide for the comprehensive analysis of all laws and regulations as a baseline to direct our resources to where they can do the most to stop the most severe crimes against the environment. The reinspection piece was also a point raised by the CESD. We've since increased the number of reinspections we do, particularly in the highest risk areas.
Those are some of the measures that we've put in. I would also note that we have investment coming in to the department for enforcement, to modernize its approach, including on risk-based enforcement, so that we can expand the degree to which we target those worst-case offences. We have the infrastructure, training and the recruitment to put our best people forward for that purpose.
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you.
We'll now go to the third round of questions.
Mr. Albas, you have five minutes. Go ahead.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to begin with Ms. Pelletier.
Ms. Pelletier, I described earlier the issue of whether or not the Public Prosecution Service had adequate resources. Can you confirm to me that no one from your team will be able to speak to whether or not they have adequate resources to hold the recommendations your department made to them?
5:50 p.m.
Chief Enforcement Officer, Enforcement Branch, Department of the Environment
I am not in a position to determine the resources of the Public Prosecution Service. That is not in our purview. It's something it will have to answer.
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Would you say that any compliance, any proper system of compliance, must not only have the front end in terms of detection, investigation and enforcement, but also needs to have the successful prosecution component for there to be seen to have been justice and to see our laws honoured?
5:50 p.m.
Chief Enforcement Officer, Enforcement Branch, Department of the Environment
It's a continuum. Absolutely, we need good public prosecution.
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Would you say that we are getting a full view of that spectrum here today?
5:50 p.m.
Chief Enforcement Officer, Enforcement Branch, Department of the Environment
No, you do not have the full view. You are viewing the enforcement portion.
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Do you think that is allowing members of Parliament to say to their constituents that there is a strong process from A to Z in terms of enforcement of CEPA?
5:50 p.m.
Chief Enforcement Officer, Enforcement Branch, Department of the Environment
When it comes to the CEPA mandate, the departmental mandate for enforcement, you do have the proper team available to you today to discuss enforcement under the Environment and Climate Change Canada mandate.
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
That is a critical component, because if we don't hear from the Public Prosecution Service as to whether or not it is properly resourced, we're not able to review your information as well as the information provided by the Americans.
