Evidence of meeting #13 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was witnesses.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Every time someone disagrees with me, Mr. Chair.... I hope it's a real point of order.
Liberal
Ya'ara Saks Liberal York Centre, ON
Mr. Chair, I'm a new committee member clarifying. Since joining the committee I have been asked to submit witness names for upcoming studies and recommendations and so on. Also, in line with the motions for the proposed studies, we can offer whom we want.
Just to clarify that the member didn't specifically ask for PPSC—
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
This is debate, Mr. Chair. It's not a point of order.
February 22nd, 2021 / 6:05 p.m.
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
I have to agree that we talked about having departmental officials. A representative of the PPS would not be a departmental official. Nobody pushed to have us invite someone from the Public Prosecution Service.
If there isn't anybody from that service today it's because there was never a request, as far as I can see.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
We did, Mr. Chair. I do appreciate we're in a debate stage here, but again the motion itself said, investigating and charging of Volkswagen. One would simply say that as a matter of course you would need to have people who were on the case, both from an ECCC side and public prosecutions. It's right in there.
Liberal
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
But I have specifically asked questions about the charging and the ability to deal with.... We have asked questions about successful prosecutions, Mr. Chair.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
They told me no. We can't speak to that.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
I understand that, but as I said nobody ever mentioned, that I can remember, that we should invite the Public Prosecution Service.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
It's not up to the opposition, Mr. Chair, to tell the government whom they should send to speak on their behalf.
That is from the department. Mr. Chair, it seems that ECCC from the deputy minister.... We have made suggestions before, and they have not honoured them. In this case, we have no one who has direct experience working on a specific case.
I will let MP Collins speak to her own motion, but Mr. Chair, it's the government's decision whom they send. By not sending someone from the Public Prosecution Service there are questions the study is unable to contemplate because we just don't know. They have said time and time again they don't know.
That doesn't mean they are not responsible public servants, but this could be by design, or it could be a simple oversight. I'm saying how frustrated I am that we can't get answers on those things.
Liberal
Conservative
Liberal
Liberal
Yvan Baker Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Mr. Chair, in our last meeting, I tried to raise and propose that the committee adopt a witness for a different study who I thought would add value to the study. Before the pros and cons of that witness were considered, Mr. Albas dismissed it outright because he said that that's a decision of the subcommittee. Now Mr. Albas wants to have it the other way, and he's criticizing the choices that were made by the subcommittee and the chair in the context of that process.
I would suggest, Mr. Chair, that we can have it one way or we can have it the other way, but we can't have it both ways. I think we have some excellent witnesses here. I think if we're genuinely interested in looking at the enforcement of CEPA instead of debating this issue and venting, as Mr. Albas said he was doing.... Let's hear from the witnesses.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
I've noted your comments, Mr. Baker, and I've noted Mr. Albas' comments.
Mr. Albas said that he doesn't need any more time, so—
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Well, you know, Mr. Chair, if you give me 20 seconds, I'll just say to Mr. Baker exactly—
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
You know, again, venting can be good for the soul, but it's also important for us all to recognize that it's not the steering committee that chooses which government representatives will come to committee. It's the government that chooses to do that. I understand his point, but it's not matching means with ends. This was a decision about who was sent by the government, not by the committee.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
By the department, yes.
We'll go now to Mr. Baker, as it happens, for five minutes.