Evidence of meeting #18 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was recycling.
A video is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Ya'ara Saks Liberal York Centre, ON
Thank you.
Just to clarify, as Bill C-204 was being introduced, were you able to share your concerns with the bill's sponsor? Were you able to offer stakeholder views on it?
4 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Chemistry Industry Association of Canada
Absolutely, thank you, yes. Everyone has been very open to discussing this bill.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Ya'ara Saks Liberal York Centre, ON
That's great. Wonderful.
With regard to the Basel Convention and U.S.-Canada trade agreements, could you highlight for us how you view the management of harmful plastics and what we should be considering in the structure we have in place now and how it will guide us? There have obviously been plenty of concerns over exports crossing the border.
4 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Chemistry Industry Association of Canada
Again, we'll go back to some of the numbers. We are focused here on solving a problem that represents something far less than 5% of Canada's or North America's exported waste, and then the portion of it that's not recycled is even smaller. I'm not discounting the environmental issues involved with that, but I think the committee's time, especially given the challenge and the opportunity to create a circular economy for plastic waste, could focus on what's going to help solve the problem, not worrying about that small 1% or 2%.
As mentioned, it is a highly integrated economy, and the issue of innovation.... Recycling isn't a fixed point. It's not one solution. There are many different solutions, and as we've heard from some of the witnesses here, the solutions come all the time.
One of the challenges we have as an industry is related to some of the technologies we would like to see to reprocess these materials to get them back into resins. Whenever discussions take place about chemical recycling or turning them into non-crude fuels, many of our critics say that it's not recycling. As an industry, you're coming up with innovative solutions to manage these problems and you're constantly told that it's not recycling.
You'll quickly understand why we have such strong concerns about a bill that doesn't define “recycling” or “final disposal”. We have to have many innovations in the next 10 years, and as Madame Pauzé said, we don't know what's going to happen. We know there have to be a lot of solutions, and they're not in our line of sight right now. Therefore, we have to be careful to draft something that leaves a lot of flexibility for the future solutions for recovering and adding value on this very important issue in the years to come.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Ya'ara Saks Liberal York Centre, ON
My next question is for Ms. St. Godard.
We touched earlier on provincial and federal recycling programs. What actions by the federal and provincial governments does your organization support to tackle the problem of plastic waste in Canada?
We talked about the concern about diversion to landfills, so if we have a made-in-Canada solution, could you touch on that, both provincially and federally?
4:05 p.m.
Executive Director, Recycling Council of Ontario
There are really three major items.
First, there is an expansion of extended producer responsibility laws to transfer the legal, financial and operational responsibility back to the actors in the chain that have the most influence, and those would be the manufacturers, brand holders, designers and sellers. However, we've only been able to tackle that in a Canadian context for very specific product lines, such as the plastics that are part of electronics.
When we think of plastics, we often only think about packaging, which represents about 30% of all plastics sold in the marketplace, based on the data that we have. EPR has really done some great things that relate to very narrow product categories, such as electronics and packaging, but there are all kinds of plastic products in the marketplace that at this point are not covered under EPR.
Second, we need to minimize, reduce, and eliminate single use. We know that one-use products are not sustainable in any way, shape or form, either environmentally or economically.
Third, government, in particular, should be using its buying power to create a demand for post-consumer recycling specifications.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
In light of some of the questions that I've heard, I want to reiterate that waste management is also a provincial responsibility.
Mr. Puckett, I have a question for you. I also have a second question and I don't have much time, so I'd like you to respond quickly.
Based on your experience in the environmental field, how do you think the environment and human health would be harmed by a sudden increase in demand for plastic waste management and disposal here in Canada?
4:05 p.m.
Executive Director, Basel Action Network
That is a really important question. We're talking about the true solution, which is to create less plastic waste, as Ms. St. Godard was saying. We have to stop producing single-use plastics.
We're not going to be able to recycle our way out of the plastic waste crisis. That is very clear. Recycling technology is not up to it, and if you're going to end up burning it or making fuel from it, you'll exacerbate the climate situation badly.
We should not be finding new hiding places globally for it. The true solution is to stop it at the source, turn off the tap, put away our mops, and really stop making so much plastic waste. That's the true solution.
We applaud Canada for taking a lead on this, as the EU has done.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
Thank you, Mr. Puckett. You echo a great deal of what I think, which is that we must start by reducing our waste before we recycle or recover it.
I'll now turn to Mr. Masterson.
I'd like you to clarify an announcement made in Alberta in 2020. The announcement referred to a program to diversify the oil and gas sector in order to boost investment in the industry. Dow, which is one of your members, and other companies are applauding this program. It's called the “Natural Gas Vision and Strategy.”
Can you list the steps that you and your members, as an association, will take to encourage your sector to go green?
4:10 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Chemistry Industry Association of Canada
First is the commitment to make sure that the plastic packaging can be and will be recycled. That is the goal defined by all of our members, including Dow and other companies.
Second is to work with other stakeholders so that materials are recovered and are recycled by 2040. When we think of the context that just 9% of the plastic in Canada is post-consumer plastic that is currently recovered and recycled, we see that it's a mammoth task.
The industry fully agrees with those goals. We have already seen some very interesting design developments—
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Mr. Masterson, I'm sorry, but we must continue with Ms. Collins.
Please go ahead, Ms. Collins.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I have a quick question for Mr. Puckett.
Mr. Masterson mentioned some of the things we might want to take out of that list, things like feedstock. Is there anything that you would recommend adding to the schedule?
4:10 p.m.
Executive Director, Basel Action Network
As you mentioned, I believe, polyvinyl chloride plastic waste is glaringly missing. That list, despite what Mr. Davidson said about it, is not drawn from the Basel Convention. I'm not sure where that list came from, but I would recommend using the Basel Convention listings. Canada is a party to the convention, and the rest of the world recognizes these listings. PVC is glaringly absent.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
Thank you so much.
In terms of some of the suggested amendments that have been talked about so far, one from Mr. Albas around schedule 7 does not include recyclable plastics that are labelled, cleaned and sorted in accordance with industry standards. Do you think that this would solve some of the issues? Also, would you have any concerns if that were the only amendment, or is there more amendment needed?
4:10 p.m.
Executive Director, Basel Action Network
What we're getting at here is that the Basel Convention's latest rules, adopted in 2019, divide plastic into three categories: hazardous plastic, plastics for special consideration and non-hazardous plastics. We would like to see those for special consideration—the mixed and dirty, difficult-to-recycle plastics—controlled for all countries but banned to the developing countries. We can accept the final disposal ban that Mr. Davidson is proposing, because that's very little of the trade, actually, and then add the real problem, as the EU has done, and say that we're not going to export that annex II waste anymore to developing countries.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
4:10 p.m.
Director General, Quebec and Atlantic Canada, David Suzuki Foundation
We've written down the same positions in our written brief, and I'll refer you to our written brief. That's exactly what our recommendations were.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Great. Thank you.
I don't know who's up for the Conservatives. Is it Mr. Jeneroux?
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Thank you.
Mr. Masterson, I'm going back to you because this is a complex issue.
You mentioned the need to have provinces adopt their own legislation. We heard Ms. St. Godard say that there could be further steps taken to require producers and recyclers to meet certain conditions. To me that's clearly something that the provincial governments do. Could you talk a little more about what needs to be done at the provincial level? The last thing we want to do is have a “who's on first?” routine between the federal government and the provinces. I think it's quite clear that this is a federal matter, because it involves our border and what we allow out of our country.