Environment Committee on March 15th, 2021

[Dr. Sabaa Khan]

There is some cross-border exchange needed when it comes to recyclable plastics, just because of the way global supply chains are set up.

The real problem here is that there just isn't the clarity that we need in the recyclables trade. We won't export hazardous wastes without proof that the waste can be handled in an environmentally sound manner; we have to apply that policy to recyclables as well.

Hazardous waste also continues to cross borders into the U.S. because of our closeness at the border and such, but the key is really the transparency mechanisms. We need to have the proper information. We need to know beforehand—before our exports are leaving the country or before we're even receiving imports—that there's a chain of accountability set up and that financial guarantees are also in place so that any disasters from potential hazardous waste or hazardous recyclable scrap can be taken care of and managed appropriately.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Would keeping the existing bill but exempting clean, sorted and labelled plastic waste for recycling address concerns from the David Suzuki Foundation about ensuring that proper recycling could continue in a circular economy?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Give a brief answer, please.

[Dr. Sabaa Khan]

Our main concern is that Canada has new international legal obligations that it has yet to implement into federal law. Bill C-204 is an excellent initiative whereby we can actually make some progress in this regard. When it comes down to Canada meeting its international legal obligations, I think inserting the Basel plastic waste amendments into Bill C-204 would provide a significant process for transparency about our plastic waste exports and imports.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Now we have Mr. Schiefke for five minutes.

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and I would like to thank all of our witnesses for being here. The reduction of plastic waste is incredibly important for citizens in my riding of Vaudreuil—Soulanges, so thank you for lending your expertise to this discussion.

Mr. Puckett, I'd like to start with you.

You stated that the bill narrowly focuses on the issue of plastic waste being exported for final disposal but leaves the issue of plastics destined for recycling largely unaddressed, which many stakeholders across Canada have flagged as severely problematic. As a result, the bill would not deal with plastic wastes that are exported for recycling but go to countries that are not in a position to effectively recycle mixed or contaminated plastic waste.

Can you expand on why this is a huge omission and how the bill will essentially do little to tackle the “heart of the problem”, as you put it, which is exports destined for recycling?

[James Puckett]

Yes. Thank you.

That's precisely right. The big problem everyone has identified is what is happening in developing countries under the name of recycling. The recycling that takes place is incomplete and highly polluting. It's very easy for people to say, “I'm sending it to the poor countries because they're going to recycle it for us.” The fact is that it's a very dirty, polluting and toxic situation. Like any industry, recycling can be good or bad.

I'm suggesting that we in Canada need to do what the EU has done. The EU has adopted the Basel ban amendment, which is a separate amendment about not exporting hazardous waste to developing countries, full stop, meaning to non-OECD countries; but the EU said they were also going to add annex II to that list and that ban. Annex II includes household waste and these new plastic wastes that are dirty and mixed. We think we can leave the Davidson bill as it is with respect to not exporting anything for final disposal, but let's add the ban on exports for recycling to developing countries. I think with that amendment, we have ourselves covered.

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Puckett.

I'd like to go next to Ms. St. Godard.

You stated that banning exports for waste, as this bill seeks to do, doesn't address the key issues. Can you speak to why this bill falls short, and perhaps expand on your comments about more proven, effective ways of reducing plastic waste, such as mandating minimum recycled content and standards, and about the circular economy approach, something that we, as a government, are working towards?

[Jo-Anne St. Godard]

Thank you for that question.

I'll build on Mr. Puckett's commentary around good and bad recycling.

First of all, I think the spirit here is to get more transparency on what it is we are collecting and sending to other shores, and certainly that is similar to what we should be doing domestically as well. Under the guise of recycling, as I mentioned in my comments, not all recyclable material is in fact recycled. We need traceability from points of generation through to final disposition. An outright ban on exporting is not really getting at the heart of the issue, which that is no matter what we are generating or how we are generating it or where it is actually managed, we need to have a line of sight on what that is to ensure that the materials are managed to the highest end uses, and also under very strict human and health protections.

Beyond that, we need to actually start creating demand. We have much more net generated material than we are able to recycle away. We need to create the kinds of demands that create value, and in fact we can try to build the recycling industry right here domestically. We have the power to do that through product specification and through government procurement, all of those activities that increase the amount of recycled content in the products and packaging that we're creating. This can actually increase the value of plastics and, by increasing their value, start to increase recycling here at home.

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you, Ms. St. Godard.

My final question in the time remaining is for Mr. Masterson.

Thanks for being here with us.

Our Liberal government met with stakeholders across Canada to listen about the best ways forward on reducing plastic waste and plastic waste exports. Your organization, as well as many others, raised serious concerns about the technical aspects of this particular bill and the difficulties of enforcing it with the legislation as tabled.

Can you expand, and perhaps share, from a practical perspective, ways in which this bill, as is, may be difficult for industry, and also costly to enforce? As we're here trying to improve on this piece of legislation, do you have any suggestions on how it could be changed for the better to help support industry?

[Bob Masterson]

That's a lot to cover in a very short period of time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I'll give you 15 seconds, if you don't mind. We're already over time, but perhaps you could answer as quickly as possible.

[Bob Masterson]

I have a few key messages.

This is a very complex problem, and a bill with a one-sentence answer clearly can't solve this problem. The main concern here is that “final disposal” is not identified and it isn't defined. That needs serious attention.

The solutions are in EPR. I hope you ask my colleague, Ms. Mantagaris, about extended producer responsibility and the specifics about the markets that are created for recycled materials in British Columbia.

As for the problem we have in Canada, when you look at Ontario alone, you see that we have 256 different markets for recycled materials, not one.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I will have to stop you there. We will go to Madame Pauzé for five minutes.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

How much time did you say, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Sorry, you don't have five minutes, you have two and a half minutes.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I have only two and a half minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Start, then we'll see.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Okay. Please take the interpretation into account.

I want to join my colleagues in thanking all the witnesses for being here.

My question is for Mr. Masterson.

We know that the export of various plastics to China has decreased significantly since 2018. Meanwhile, the portion sent to the United States has increased. The United States isn't a signatory to the Basel Convention.

Why are you saying that Bill C-204 would prevent collaboration with the United States, when in reality the partnership has been used extensively?

I'd like you to respond quickly, since I have barely two and a half minutes.

[Bob Masterson]

First, I'm not aware that trade with the U.S. has increased. It was mentioned earlier that Canada generates about three and a quarter million tonnes of plastic waste a year. Roughly 10% of that is recycled, and about 150,000 tonnes a year is exported. Most of that goes to the U.S. That was consistent with some of the numbers we heard before. I've not seen any evidence that this has changed in the last years. As my colleague Ms. St. Godard and others have said, that data is hard to come by. All these are very rough estimates.

Again, the main concern is what is meant by “final disposal”, and how does that get read—

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Sorry. Unfortunately, I must interrupt you.

You said earlier that there will be changes, but that you're aiming for 2030. At a conference in 2019, the president of Dow Chemical claimed that there wasn't enough demand for recycled plastic to make it viable. However, a science industry is developing compostable bioplastics. This concerns Bosk Bioproducts in Quebec and Advanced BioCarbon 3D in British Columbia. This market is promising, but you're putting it off until 2030.

I also want to remind you that there's an action plan for the implementation of a circular economy. It's already in place at the European Commission. A Quebec centre of expertise already provides advisory services and solutions regarding this issue to governments and companies. In my opinion, 2030 is much too far away. There are ways to act now.

Why not?

[Bob Masterson]

We are acting now. We have the zero plastic waste action plan from the Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment. Every one of those elements is to be introduced and worked on.

At this point, as Mr. Albas mentioned, we have a full producer responsibility program in B.C. In the province of B.C., nearly half of all plastic waste generated is captured, recovered and reused. On average, that's five times better than the rest of the country.

Ontario, Alberta and Quebec are all modernizing their recycling programs, moving to fully industry-paid extended producer responsibility and harmonized systems. British Columbia has, by and large, a single provincial recycling system.

In Ontario alone, we have 256 different systems. It will not work with 256 different systems—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. Masterson, we have to move on. Madame Pauzé, go ahead.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Chair, before I finish, I'd like to ask one thing.

I think that I'm out of time. Is that right?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

That's right.