Environment Committee on March 15th, 2021

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Canada hasn't filed the final amendment.

There have been three amendments, and Canada has only been a signatory to two. The U.S. isn't a signatory to the Basel Convention.

First of all, Environment Canada doesn't even track plastic waste going outside of the country. There were 400,000 tonnes of plastic waste exported for which no permits were issued.

The fact of the matter is that when you look at the world's oceans and look at what's happening, you can see that we have a plastics problem. It's staring us right in the face, and this is still happening regardless, so we have to have a law with some teeth to stop this from happening.

[Raj Saini, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Have you looked at any of the World Trade Organization agreements, or anything we have, and how that would be impacted?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Please answer very quickly, because the time's up.

[Raj Saini, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

How would our international trade obligations be impacted? Have you looked at that impact with the WTO, with GATT, the general agreement on tariffs and trade, and all those international agreements that we have? Have you looked at that impact?

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

No, I—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We could have a yes or no, maybe, because we have to go on to Madame Pauzé now. You can always give the answer when responding to another member, Mr. Davidson.

Ms. Pauzé, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you all for being here.

I want to commend the initiative of the member who introduced this bill, which addresses a major environmental issue.

We know that the plastic situation is critical for our ecosystems. I welcome this bill because it tries to find solutions here, internally, in order to stop exporting our issues.

My first question concerns the Basel Convention, which we've just discussed.

We know that there have been amendments to the Basel Convention. The bill would need to be amended, particularly schedule 7.

Are you open to updating the bill to reflect the latest amendments to the Basel Convention?

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Thanks for the question.

Yes, I'm open. As I said, I'm open to working with this committee and following the amendments that the committee looks at. This is a chance for us again as parliamentarians to have Canada take a leadership role like Australia, like the U.K., and make this bill work.

We have something on the table. We're in a minority Parliament now, and that could change at any time. I appreciate the committee convening to look at Bill C-204. It is my hope that we can work together to make this work.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Of course.

You're positioning your bill as an amendment to the Canadian Environmental Protection Act. We've known since the Speech from the Throne, and even before the speech, that there will be amendments to the act.

Do you plan to take steps with regard to these amendments?

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

I actually haven't seen any amendments to my bill as of yet. Perhaps I didn't receive them, but I haven't seen any amendments as of yet.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

In other words, you have positioned your bill within the Canadian Environmental Protection Act. However, we know that the current government wants to review the act. I thought that it would be a good idea for you to take steps when the act is amended.

I have another question for you. If we focus only on the export of plastic waste, we aren't solving the problem. Researcher Marc Olivier said that Canadian plastic production amounts to 3.25 million tonnes in Canada alone. That's too much to stop exporting entirely.

Would this bill be part of a larger plan? If so, can you outline that plan?

If we're looking at exports alone, that isn't enough.

Do you have an idea of a larger plan to address the plastic waste issue?

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Thanks for the question.

My bill is specifically focusing on the export of plastic waste for final disposal. That's what I want to focus on. That's what Bill C-204 focuses on.

If there are amendments here today to make it more robust, obviously I'm looking forward to hearing from the witnesses today regarding this. I'm happy for any input we can get on that.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I have another suggestion for the bill. Why not include a section on better screening of plastic waste streams that aren't destined for final disposal?

We know that a number of these plastics—you referred to them in your presentation—will end up being burned or buried. It's a myth to think that they'll be recycled.

What do you think about the idea of establishing a mechanism such as a registry to ensure the traceability of the waste?

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Again, I would say to colleagues that this is a private member's bill, not a government bill. I was literally under the gun to draft this bill.

If there are amendments that the Bloc wants to put forward, or the NDP—I know Raj is going to work with me on this bill—I'm happy to see those amendments. I'm happy to hear from industry witnesses, who are all very important, and to talk to Canadians.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Chair, do I have any time left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You have 30 seconds left.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I'll make this quick.

Mr. Davidson, in your bill, you referred to the “final disposal” of plastic waste. It seems that the industry is concerned about this wording.

Does your bill leave room for waste processing?

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

It strictly deals with disposal. The final disposal of plastic waste is what it deals with.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

The six minutes are up, Ms. Pauzé.

I'll now give the floor to Ms. Collins.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you so much, Mr. Davidson, for being here with us today.

Thanks for putting forward this bill, which seeks to end the unacceptable practice of exporting our plastic waste to countries that don't have the infrastructure to deal with it. We should never be dumping our waste on other countries.

I think you outlined pretty well the impacts on health, the environment and our oceans. They've been so severe, especially for countries with low-income, marginalized and racialized populations. These countries have been particularly hard hit by Canada's lack of leadership on this issue. It's really important that we're moving forward in a way that will address it.

I've spoken to a number of experts on the Basel Convention. They've expressed some concern that specifying plastic waste for final disposal only, as this bill does, wouldn't actually stop us from exporting a lot of the plastic waste that is ending up in the oceans and landfills or being burned. The plastic that's ending up in poor countries, like the Philippines and Cambodia, often is not being labelled for final disposal; it's being labelled as recycling, but then turns out to be contaminated and not recyclable in those countries, or they don't have the infrastructure to deal with it.

I'm wondering about your intention with Bill C-204. It sounds like it was really to help prevent this kind of waste ending up in these countries that don't have the infrastructure. I'm wondering if you could speak a bit to that.

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

I'm a supporter of Canadian innovation. Again, Canada has to harness our innovative Canadian companies and showcase them.

I'm a supporter of recycling. We all want to keep plastic circular in the economy; that is our goal, and I think my Liberal colleagues would agree with me on that. I know Raj does.

We want to see a successful recycling program take place in Canada. We want to see innovative Canadian businesses. Do we want to see a problem with plastics in the world's oceans? Quite frankly, Laurel, people ask me in my riding how this affects them in Lake Simcoe. Well, we know that there are articles just out on microplastics and on fish consuming plastics. We know Gord Johns has spoken on this issue to my colleagues on the B.C. coast, and to my colleagues in P.E.I. and New Brunswick and Nova Scotia in relation to harvesting lobster.

These are all important things. I'm open to making this bill as robust as possible.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

With regard to highlighting our local businesses, there's a small business start-up here in Victoria, Flipside Plastics, that is launching a microrecycling pilot project focused on local recycling. I can imagine that if we were to find a way to make this bill robust, the additional benefit would be that we'd be supporting our local recycling companies here.

It sounds as if you would be open to changing some of the language if you were sure that removing the reference to “final disposal” and replacing it with something more robust would be in line with what you were trying to achieve with this bill.

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

That's correct. I support any amendments that are going to make this bill as robust as possible and taking into account industry for sure, but again, and I can't stress this enough, we know there's a plastics problem. I think the David Suzuki Foundation is here today to speak to this as well. I think as colleagues we all know, and I'm not meaning to harp on it, that this is truly a way Canada can take a leadership role on this file of plastic waste.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Schedule 7, as proposed, contains several compounds. They include groups of polymers that are used in the production of plastic and plastic products. It also appears that some plastics, such as PVC, may be missing.

I wanted you to outline how the list of items on schedule 7 was determined. Would you be open to making changes?

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

The list is straight from the Basel Convention.

I know I told Peter earlier that my bill has been left open. The minister can add or remove items from that list. Again, in drafting it, time was of the essence, so we went right to the Basel Convention for the list. If there is a problem with a certain defined term or if it has to be changed, the minister can make those changes.