Environment Committee on April 14th, 2021

[Pascal Roberge, Director, Program Integration Division, Science and Technology Branch, Department of the Environment]

It is Pascal Roberge here, and I am responsible for the national pollutant release inventory.

We are tracking pollutant releases, disposal and transfers for treatment and recycling. Our data helps to inform decisions on protecting the environment by allowing communities to track pollutants in their communities. We have pollutant releases identified through their postal codes. Depending on the community, it's possible to use the NPRI, which is the acronym we use for our inventory, to identify and act on environmental priorities and potentially to study the impacts of pollution on our ecosystem and human health.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Is it possible to provide that information to the committee?

[Pascal Roberge]

Yes, all data since 1993 is public information. It's on open data, so it is possible to consult it on the government website.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I imagine, when you're talking about abandoned sites and brownfields that fall under federal jurisdiction, that information might help you decide where we should be cleaning up first.

Mr. Baker, you have four minutes.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thanks very much, Chair.

I'm going to cede my time to Ms. Zann.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay.

Go ahead.

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you very much. I really appreciate that.

Bill C-230 obviously deals with collecting data from across the nation. My question for the departments would be, when it comes to racialized communities and their closeness to various different pollutants, I don't think this has been information that has been focused upon in the past. Has it? Could anybody answer that, please?

[David Morin]

I could take a stab at it.

I think you raise a very good question. When we do the work that we do to assess chemicals, to set drinking water quality standards, to set air quality standards, it is data that drives all of this. Certainly, when we do our work, as I mentioned before, on vulnerable populations and we factor in vulnerable populations when we do chemical risk assessments, we need the data. We need the data both in terms of who those vulnerable populations are and how they are located vis-à-vis these sources of exposure to whatever it is of concern, be it chemicals or end of pipe emissions or smoke-stacks.

I suspect that the same sort of approach certainly applies to racialized communities and it is the need to have data. That is what will drive the work that we do.

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you.

I know that here in Nova Scotia, for instance, standards have changed over the years, and that's how we progress as a society. I do know that when the pulp mill was first placed in Boat Harbour and Pictou Landing First Nation, the government was asked on the day whether or not it would affect anybody if it was placed there, and the response was that only a few Indians would be affected. Obviously, this is a perfect example of environmental racism. One would hope that we don't continue down that path.

Do you think this bill would help to put a focus on the fact that racialized people have not been necessarily counted as being important in the past and that, going forward, we need to be able to change that and make sure that these kinds of issues are addressed and that we don't continue to do that? Do you think this bill could help us to collect the data and the information so that we make sure we don't do this in the future?

[David Morin]

The short answer is yes. It will certainly raise attention and awareness related to that. You have it in the bill beside you. You talk about information collection. You talk about statistics. You talk about environmental risk. Certainly these are some of those data points that I just mentioned before. Putting your bill aside, I'm looking at the concepts in your bill and I'm drawing parallels with the work that we've done on chemical risk assessment under the Canadian Environmental Protection Act with regard to vulnerable populations. Truly it is awareness, as you've pointed out.

We're all white people on this Zoom meeting. Certainly when we were talking about vulnerable populations, I don't consider myself a vulnerable population and may very well have blinders. It is important to establish a panel to get a sense of what other vulnerable populations there are. I am certain that understanding will evolve over time as we get more information, more data, greater awareness, and then we need the data to be able to do something.

As I said, I'm not necessarily commenting on the bill; I'm commenting on the elements that I read on the paper.

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

This has been a very interesting discussion. Thank you to the panellists and to the members for their very good questions which brought out some insights.

Thank you to our witnesses. The witnesses are free to disconnect from Zoom.

I have a couple of items of future business that I want to mention.

There's no meeting on Monday because of the budget. Our next two meetings will be to continue the plastics study. Those are April 21 and 26. We are looking for witness suggestions for Bill C-230 by the 26th of April.

I have been advised that the minister is available on May 12 to speak to the main estimates. If there is no objection, I will invite him to come on May 12.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

On that point, Mr. Chair, we also expect the deputy to be there—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes, that's understood.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

—[Inaudible—Editor] for her duties as an accounting officer, at least for the second hour.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Totally.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

If I could also make another suggestion, it would be nice if we limited it to five heads under the minister. If you have 40 people there, it gets to be just a long process—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

—as they figure out who is going to answer which questions, so it should, reasonably, be five. If the government can make a reasonable argument as to why it should be six, it can bring that to the committee and your attention.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Just for the benefit of Madam Clerk, we'll aim for five: the deputy and four ADMs or whatever.

Thank you, again, for a good meeting.

Congratulations, again, Ms. Zann, on the success of your bill at second reading.

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you.

Thank you everybody, I really appreciate it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Everyone, have a great evening, and we'll see you on the 21st.

The meeting is adjourned.