Evidence of meeting #26 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was plastics.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Yvan Baker Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
In 25 seconds, Professor Curran, you called advanced single-use plastics an easy starting point. Why is it easy?
4:35 p.m.
Executive Director, Environmental Law Centre, University of Victoria, As an Individual
It's easy because it's very visible. In my view, there's a broad consensus, both at the government level and the citizen level, that something needs to be done.
4:35 p.m.
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Let me turn to you, Ms. Boudreault. First, I would like to congratulate you on your company's achievements.
Since I only have two and a half minutes to ask questions and my time is limited, if you cannot answer my questions, I will ask you to send us your answers in writing.
My question is threefold.
On average, how long does it take for your products to break down? Will the resource you are using, biomass, be sufficiently abundant to ensure significant production? Are you continuing to develop and research other resources to add to your production processes, which are very appealing?
4:35 p.m.
General Manager, Bosk Bioproduits Inc.
To answer the first question, I would say that it all depends on the application of the finished product that is manufactured. During the tests, we used finished products that were three millimetres thick. So they were quite strong. Anything thinner will degrade faster. During the tests, we found that the three-millimetre product decomposed in six months under industrial composting conditions. We can also make changes separately to our bioplastic formulations depending on how we develop them. For each application, we have a specific formulation.
Remind me what the second part of your question was about.
4:40 p.m.
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
It was about biomass. Is the resource you use sufficiently abundant?
4:40 p.m.
General Manager, Bosk Bioproduits Inc.
Let me give you an example of a paper mill site. We are building plants on paper mill sites, because our raw material is the by-products that are not used in paper mill operations. A standard size plant will produce up to 20,000 tonnes per year of compostable bioplastic for each plant built on a paper mill site.
For the third part of your question, yes, we are still developing our technology, because it is possible to produce PHA from all kinds of industrial by-products. This is the niche we are developing; we use different by-products from all kinds of industries, such as the food industry. We can use a lot of carbon sources, and we're still developing that. If we want to be a major player, we need to be able to process different types of by-products.
4:40 p.m.
Bloc
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
No, but we will come back to you in a few moments.
Mr. Bachrach, we'll go to you for two and a half minutes, please.
4:40 p.m.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Professor Curran, the products that are on the list and proposed for a ban represent a fraction of 1% of the total plastic waste in our society.
Is this proposal going far enough given the scale of the problem we're facing?
4:40 p.m.
Executive Director, Environmental Law Centre, University of Victoria, As an Individual
Thank you for the question.
You know, I appreciate that with the federal government there's a lot of movement right now on CEPA, a lot of attention towards CEPA. The reality is that it is not hopelessly, but significantly, out of date.
It was enacted. There were a number of substances put on the list. There has been a lot of conversation in the public sphere about how that list has not been updated; how, in Europe, a lot of very different things are happening around substances of concern and giving direction to industry about what is acceptable to be used in countries.
Does the proposal, then, for a very tiny amount of plastics to be put on the list go far enough? I'm always interested in seeing a solid start and then [Technical difficulty--Editor], as long as the federal government and you are comfortable that this start then allows a way to actually achieve the plan you've set out for yourselves. Then it's a test or it starts out in a very small way. The federal government could go a lot further, but given industry concerns and the amount of attention to this, it's a bit challenging for you, because CEPA is receiving attention separate from what this committee is looking into. How those two initiatives around plastics themselves go forward will need to be coordinated as well with the amendments to CEPA.
In my view, it doesn't go far enough. I will put that statement. In the view of the Environmental Law Centre, it doesn't go far enough, but starting is very important. There's a certain inertia to starting.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Mr. Bachrach, you have basically five seconds left. I'll add it to your next round.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
April 21st, 2021 / 4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
Thanks to everybody for being here today.
I'll pick up on that a little. Some of the items that are being banned relate to food packaging. If we move forward with further bans, we're going to get more into food packaging, because that's where a lot of the plastic waste comes from. Of course, food packaging is regulated under the safe food for Canadians regulations, as a result of the listeria and E. coli outbreaks, so a lot of work went into that.
Back in March, I asked officials at this committee whether they've consulted with Health Canada, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency and Agriculture Canada about banning plastics in the food industry. They kind of said yes, but it was a bit of a hesitant answer.
Mr. Burt, maybe I'll start with you.
It took CFIA and Health Canada six years to implement the safe food for Canadians regulations, because it took a long time for the food industry to adapt. Do you believe the food industry can adapt in time for the bans that are coming on January 1, and then some of the further bans that are likely to happen?
4:45 p.m.
Vice-President and Global Director, Climate and Energy Policy, Dow
It's a tough question to answer if you don't know how R and D develops. We continually get pressed as a corporation to develop new polymers to help food preservation.
One of the important aspects that we want to highlight in banning plastics, which we don't see as a viable path forward, is basically that the world is going to add two billion people in population by 2050. That requires 30% more water, 40% more energy and 50% more food production. One of the largest landfill items is food waste, so plastic manufactured items like food wrap go a long way to preserving food and keeping it on the shelves, helping to feed Canadians and individuals around the world.
The reality is that there is constant innovation. Dow and all of the other resin producers in the world are challenged every day to come up with new items that have higher recycling content, more recyclability aspects to them and different performance.
The difficulty, as I alluded to earlier, is that most people do not believe these six bans go far enough. Our concern is that as this list continues to expand, it will basically push products that are very useful to society out of the marketplace. The reality is that we really want to focus on the circular economy aspect. We think that the federal government should be putting most of its effort into developing financial measurements, infrastructures and national frameworks that really promote the circular economy.
Some of the best examples we have in Canada are basically the deposits that we have for pop bottles and water bottles. It's very difficult to find these bottles anywhere in the environment where these deposits are in operation. We would like to see some sort of mechanism for extended producer responsibility that would actually make post-consumed plastic not waste, but a resource. If we're going to go into a circular economy aspect, plastic is basically the feedstock for it.
The reality is that we have to keep these products in the environment, but we need to tackle the waste issue.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
Thanks.
One thing we haven't talked about at all today—and maybe that's not surprising—is cost.
Ms. Boudreault and Mr. St-Hilaire, how do your products compare cost-wise to their alternatives?
Maybe we can go to Ms. Boudreault first.
4:45 p.m.
General Manager, Bosk Bioproduits Inc.
Our material is more expensive than conventional plastics, but it depends on the type of resin because there is a wide variety on the market.
Our products are generally three to four times more expensive than conventional petrochemical plastics. However, the cost portion for the raw material, the plastic, has little impact on the cost of the finished product. The difference reaches perhaps 5%. It depends on the application, but the impact is not significant.
4:45 p.m.
Vice-President, Sales Business Development, Tilton
Thank you for your question.
Definitely there is a difference in price between recyclable items and compostable items. Compostables are usually higher in price. That's always been the case. It's not to say.... Both have their reason to be. At Tilton we offer both. We offer post-consumer recycled content items as well as compostables, and both are sold.
I think they can both live under the same roof. Depending on the application and the client, I think they both can find a good use. In both cases, though, one thing I will mention is that we need to find a solution for end of life, both in the compostable world and the recyclable world.