Environment Committee on April 28th, 2021

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I'm sure that there are contamination issues and whatnot, but that may be beyond what we're discussing today.

One of the things we've also heard is that, largely, the producers, as well as those who package and those who want to reuse these materials, such as the coffee cup container lid, have said there's value to that, and that if there's not a standard practice, let's say, within a geographical area—such as Peel, Durham and other areas around the GTA—they are unable to get enough scale to actually create a market. Would you agree with that?

[Norman Lee]

I would agree with that. If a product is recyclable but is not accepted in enough places, they won't have the scale to attract the investment in the downstream processing. That's one of the reasons Peel supports producer responsibility, where producers would then be in control of the design of the blue box across the province of Ontario or any other province and, hopefully, consistent across the entire country, so that if they decide to put something like a coffee cup lid in the blue box, they can do it everywhere and generate the scale that's needed to attract the investment and make it viable.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I'm from British Columbia. As you know, there is one single EPR regime for British Columbia, and the rates of recycling are massively different and create different opportunities for the private sector to work with municipalities, which are mainly in charge of collections.

Do you think the federal government, even if it's not in its jurisdiction to force municipalities to, because obviously they're creatures of the province, should be taking this to, for example, the national table for environment ministers, and working with them?

[Norman Lee]

I think it would be helpful, through the Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment, to develop EPR guidelines that could be put in place across Canada to help guide EPR programs, so that there is consistency across the country and it doesn't change dramatically from province to province.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

That obviously is different from what this federal government is calling for. It is a very simple thing to say, a simple idea, but by actually working on getting standard national regulation that allows for a better pickup of these materials, do you think that's really going to help municipalities like your own, or your county, to be able to deal with this and to see recycling go up?

[Norman Lee]

If there are harmonized EPR programs across each province or across the country with sufficiently high targets set for them, that will certainly help with the capture of these materials. However, I don't think it would be the full solution, because there are materials—items in the initial ban, such as coffee straws—that tend to contaminate everything in the blue box. They're very difficult to separate out, and they tend to end up in the litter as well. Plastic grocery bags, which are accepted in many recycling programs, including the one in Peel, still end up in the environment.

There are some materials where we in Peel believe a ban is still appropriate if the material is not being recycled effectively.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. Albas, you're just out of time.

I know Mr. Longfield would rather switch, and even though we're—

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I have some municipal questions as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Go ahead.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thanks.

I want to tie some of the federal, provincial and municipal themes together, but I think I can work with what we have.

Mr. Lee, I'll just continue with you. As you are a graduate of the University of Guelph, it's always good to see an alumnus on the panel.

Guelph also does a lot of work with Peel. We've had the Partners in Project Green from Pearson airport come out to our municipality to show how they've created a circular economy within the businesses in Peel.

Could you maybe comment quickly on that view, of waste being a resource?

I'll tag on a bit to that as well that you talked about an increased facility that you're looking at putting in, to be able to attract composting from other communities. Guelph has something similar, whereby we increased our composting facility. We've also increased our recovery systems and now have contracts with Waterloo. We take their waste as a resource for us to use.

I'm saying there are some economic opportunities, not only between businesses but also between municipalities.

[Norman Lee]

Through Mr. Chair, I think I have all the questions down here, and if I've missed any, the member can ask again.

As far as the resources are concerned, humans consume a lot of resources, and if we don't get those resources from our waste streams, we have to go back out to the forest and the mines and such to get them. Therefore, I believe strongly in capturing as many resources out of our waste stream as possible and keeping them in use to reduce the need for raw natural resources. Of course, we do that with the recycling program. The more of that material we can capture and keep out of landfills and the environment, the less extraction is needed.

Peel is building an anaerobic digestion facility that would have enough capacity in it to serve our needs and to also allow for some other municipal green bin material to be processed there. We just completed upgrades to our blue box recycling facility; we spent over $23 million or $24 million to increase its capacity and improve its performance. Again, we'll be able to bring materials in, which helps efficiencies and keeps costs down.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

It really points to the need for standards, as you've already mentioned in your testimony. I appreciate that. I'm feeling like we're competing in the market, and that's always a good thing.

I would like to shift over to the Canadian Beverage Association. In your testimony, you're talking about recovery rates. One of the partners in Project Green in Peel is Coca-Cola. Of course, they're looking at reducing their costs on waste, but also using waste as a resource for inputs for other businesses.

What's the relationship between the manufacturers, the association and the users, in terms of who bears the cost when we look at putting in an EPR program?

Mr. Goetz.

[Jim Goetz]

Yes, Coca-Cola is one of our members in Peel and Mississauga. We have several manufacturing facilities there that are members of our association. Coca-Cola, PepsiCo and Refresco employ hundreds of folks in that region.

The beverage sector is in a unique situation. When you look at overall plastic production that either goes out in waste or is recycled, the beverage sector actually represents a very small percentage of that. Yet, over time, in various provinces, there has been a focus on our containers, which we have accepted, and our member companies want to make sure our products are collected, are not seen out on the street and are recycled at a high rate.

There are problematic plastics, which Norm commented on, that are harder to recycle. With beverage containers, there seems to be a bit of focus on them, but they are not those products. PET plastics, which are what our containers and lids are made of, are recycled. There's a market for them, and they are bought and sold as a commodity.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

We have limited time; thank you for your testimony. It was the cost piece I was searching for.

I have to flip over, because I have only 30 seconds, to Environmental Defence Canada. In your report, “No Time to Waste: Six Ways Canada Can Progress to Zero Plastic Waste by 2025”, solution five uses economic instruments, like the ones I was mentioning, but who bears the cost for those?

Could you expand on that in the few seconds we have left?

[Karen Wirsig]

Obviously, governments can help support the transition to the kind of circular economy infrastructure that's going to be needed, but we believe producers should be responsible. We agree with the assessment by the region of Peel that producers should be primarily responsible for making this happen. They produce the materials; they choose the materials. They have the direct relationship with their customers, and they should bear the responsibility and the full cost of the full life cycle of the products.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I have just been informed that Ms. Savage is not likely to join us, because of ongoing technical problems. However, a brief will be sent to us.

The bells are ringing, but there are 22 minutes left before we suspend for the vote in the House.

We will continue with Ms. Pauzé.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have questions for all our guests, but I won't have time.

Let me start with Ms. Wallis, from Oceana Canada.

You stated that we need to reduce our plastic production and use. You said that the ban in the study is essential, but is not enough. You even listed what must be added. You stressed the urgency of federal regulations and you reviewed what other countries have done. That's what I'm particularly interested in.

I share your view that we need to reduce our plastic use and redirect petrochemical sector subsidies elsewhere.

Could you tell us which state has made the most progress in this area? How long did it take to achieve this? How can Canada learn from it?

[Ashley Wallis]

Obviously, as I stated, other countries have already made progress on this issue. Only a couple already have their laws in place. The EU, for example, proposed their law in 2018 and it will be coming into force this summer, so this summer we'll start to see the real impacts of the European Union's proposed ban.

They did some really comprehensive analysis, though. It was done for them by Eunomia, and I would be happy to share that report with the committee afterwards, for your review. They did some complicated analysis and found exactly how much that was going to reduce plastic pollution. They include other important items as well, though, like litter abatement and the collection of plastics that would otherwise end up in rivers and then eventually in the ocean.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you very much. We will gladly accept the complementary document that you are offering.

I would now like to ask Mr. Lee a question.

Mr. Lee, thank you for joining us. In particular, I would like to discuss the initiatives that you are involved with in the Circular Economy Lab.

During our study, we found that almost everyone involved was supportive of the circular economy. This is what all the witnesses who came to tell us about it said. However, there is collective criticism about the worrisome delay in the circular economy being implemented. Someone from Unilever Canada pointed out that you have a collaborative and co-operative forum. You have that forum, but it seems that the conversations are not prompting any tangible action. That's why I'm concerned.

Can you tell us what tangible results are emerging from these conversations and what sustainable progress you have seen from your partners?

[Norman Lee]

The economy is a pretty big ship, and it takes a long time to turn it. While these things seem to happen very slowly, we are making progress in some regards. We are adding items to our recycling program to get them back into the circular economy. We're adding items to our green bin programs; we're adding new recyclable items. Some folks are looking at mattresses and furnishings, to get them back into the circular economy.

Some of the policy items we talked about today, I think, would be helpful too. A move to stronger producer responsibility, or more producer responsibility, would allow producers—as Mr. Goetz said—to implement programs that are maybe more efficient and more effective in capturing more materials and getting them into the circular economy.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Earlier, you mentioned that you have been working to extend producer responsibility.

I will now ask Mr. Goetz a question.

First, you know that websites are one of the main sources of information. There is a lack of recent content on yours. The scourge of plastic bottles is a major issue.

You say that your members are committed to increasing the recycled content of plastic bottles in the coming years. In your documents, you do mention that this will be done in the coming years, but we agree that it could take a long time. Could you share the terms of these commitments and the implementation target dates?

[Jim Goetz]

Thank you for that. If any information is missing from our website, we'd be happy to provide that to the committee afterwards.

We generally rely on audited reports that are approved by provincial governments. For example, in British Columbia or in Quebec, through our recycling programs, we have to submit a report to the provincial government. It is audited first and then submitted to the provincial government, and they sign off on the recycling and collection numbers we are achieving.

To answer your question, we have programs in place in almost every province. Two examples I would talk about as far as where we're trying to achieve even higher targets are Ontario and Quebec.

In Ontario we advocated in favour of an 80% target for collection, which we hope is going to be included in draft regulation in Ontario.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Unfortunately, we'll have to stop there, but you'll have a chance to provide that information in response to other questions.

I have good news, colleagues and witnesses. The Honourable Sonya Savage was able to connect.

Welcome, Minister.

[Sonya Savage, Minister of Energy, Government of Alberta]

I apologize for this. They said it was a technical infrastructure problem. It's probably our Government of Alberta platform with its firewalls. In any event, I've logged in on an iPhone—good old iPhone technology.