Evidence of meeting #3 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was question.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
So you have no average household income. Is that correct?
You're not tracking that actively.
5:40 p.m.
Director General, Environmental Policy, Department of Transport
We are not actively tracking that at this point in time.
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Are you concerned about the situation where a manufacturer sets a base model just under the threshold price so that the purchaser can access the subsidy, and then later charges them extra for add-ons, ensuring that the taxpayer is essentially underwriting a luxury purchase?
5:40 p.m.
Director General, Environmental Policy, Department of Transport
Madam Chair, the way that the program has been designed is that if a vehicle meets the eligibility criteria the department has set out, then higher-priced trims on that vehicle can also be eligible, up to a certain cap.
I'm happy to go through that if the committee wishes.
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
No. I would appreciate if you could send the information on what you are tracking actively.
Now people of less means generally don't buy new vehicles. These programs are essentially helping people to buy new cars. Is there something in place to help people access used ones?
5:40 p.m.
Director General, Environmental Policy, Department of Transport
Certainly while the current program does focus on new vehicle sales, we know that about 60% of vehicles purchased by Canadians are purchased on the secondary market.
There was a commitment and ministerial mandate letters to explore a used zero-emissions vehicle program. That is something we are currently exploring expanding the current program to include.
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Okay.
What is the total lifetime greenhouse gas emissions impact of the average electric vehicle, including its manufacturer, and what is the greenhouse gas reduction impact per taxpayer dollar spent for this subsidy?
5:40 p.m.
Director General, Environmental Policy, Department of Transport
I'm sorry, Madam Chair. Can I please hear the question again?
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Sure. What is the total lifetime greenhouse gas emissions of an average electric vehicle, including the manufacturing process, and what is the greenhouse gas reduction impact per taxpayer dollar that is spent on the subsidy?
5:45 p.m.
Director General, Environmental Policy, Department of Transport
Madam Chair, I'm not sure I can provide specific numbers today. We might have to follow up on that.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
We actually do know, though, that your department has said that the estimated cost per tonne of greenhouse gas reduction from the subsidy was almost $900. This is highest per tonne of any government emission reduction program.
If the subsidy is expensive and only helping wealthy people buy cars that they were actually going to buy anyway and is not resulting in commensurate greenhouse gas reductions, what is the policy justification for this subsidy?
5:45 p.m.
Director General, Environmental Policy, Department of Transport
Madam Chair, we have set the eligibility thresholds for eligible vehicles to be within the range that we know Canadians do spend on vehicles on average, so that is why the current cap is set at $45,000 for base models for most vehicles and $55,000 for vehicles that seat more than six people.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
You don't track household income. You don't track some of these other metrics we've talked about. Are we not essentially allowing people to subsidize a luxury car purchase? You said before that the base model has workarounds.
5:45 p.m.
Director General, Environmental Policy, Department of Transport
Madam Chair, I would just like to clarify that I don't think I mentioned anything about workarounds earlier. What I did say is that for vehicles whose base model costs $45,000, other trims up to a limit of $55,000 are also considered eligible. For vehicles that will accommodate more than six people, that base model can go up to $55,000. Then there is a cap for other trims set at $60,000.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
I would say that most people consider $55,000 a luxury vehicle.
Thank you.
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Thank you, Mr. Albas.
We now go to Mr. Scarpaleggia.
You will be my last round, because I need to ask the witness to verify that they would like their documents to be made public.
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I'd like to thank Ms. Pauzé for suggesting this study. It's clear that the work we are doing is timely and important to tackle climate change.
I'd like to piggyback on what Mr. Albas was saying. The electric vehicle subsidy for reducing greenhouse gas emissions is $900 per tonne. Did I hear that correctly? I'm not sure who can answer that. I believe I heard $900 per tonne of greenhouse gas emissions.
5:45 p.m.
Director General, Environmental Policy, Department of Transport
Madam Chair, I can just respond that this is not a figure that comes from Transport Canada.
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC
Did that figure come from Mr. Albas? I see it did.
Is your figure different from $900? I'm not sure whether I'm making myself clear. I'm trying to find out what the cost per tonne of greenhouse gas emissions is as far as reductions go.
5:45 p.m.
Director General, Environmental Policy, Department of Transport
Madam Chair, I assume that the question is being directed to me.
I would just like to clarify, as mentioned earlier, that there are a number of ways to define and calculate cost per tonne. As I mentioned earlier, because the program is still in its early months, we have not yet finalized what that cost per tonne is.
I can say that, of the 60,000 vehicles incentivized to date, according to our estimates they brought reductions of about 207,000 tonnes per year and about 2.5 million tonnes over their lifespan. Also, the average reduction that is brought by a zero-emission vehicle on the road is about 3.5 tonnes over its lifetime.
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC
When Canada reaches its target of replacing all gasoline-powered vehicles by 2040, do you have a general sense of how much it will reduce Canada's total greenhouse gas emissions, percentage-wise? I'm not looking for an exact figure.
5:50 p.m.
Director General, Energy and Transportation, Department of the Environment
Madam Chair, allow me to answer that.
In Canada, passenger vehicles produce about 83 megatonnes of greenhouse gas emissions annually.
5:50 p.m.
Liberal