Environment Committee on Oct. 26th, 2020

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

I know that the Canadian Trucking Alliance has approached Environment Canada to create a working group to work together to develop a road map for decarbonization of the trucking industry.

Ms. Ryan, I'm wondering if there are any steps that have been taken to create such a working group.

[Helen Ryan]

I'm going to defer the question to my colleague, Marc D'lorio.

[Marc D'Iorio, Director General, Energy and Transportation, Department of the Environment]

I'm not aware of direct work to create a working group. However, there are a number of measures being considered under the heavy-duty regulations to look at ways to decarbonize, as well as working with other departments to see what combination of measures will accomplish this. There are some programs that have been put in place by provinces looking at retrofitting the existing fleet, for example energy-saving devices like skirts on trucks, deflectors and tires. Those are the main measures that improved the efficiency of the current fleet.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Are you saying that there have been no discussions to create a working group to get industry players in line with this, no efforts to get all of the people at the table to help develop these types of regulation?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

A 30 second answer, please. Yes or no?

[Marc D'Iorio]

Not that I'm aware of.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you, Mr. Redekopp.

We now go to Mr. Saini for five minutes.

[Raj Saini, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to start with a question for Natural Resources Canada. One of the things that I've been reading about is that there's some consumer anxiety when it comes to the range of these vehicles—how far the batteries will last—especially in the winter. Are they going to have enough of a charge?

I know that Natural Resources Canada is undertaking a mass infrastructure program for mass EV adoption. What is your thinking on that range anxiety being one of the barriers to more adoption? What proposals do you have to limit that anxiety?

[Paula Vieira]

Range anxiety, absolutely, is a barrier to deployment. That is why Natural Resources Canada is spending over $300 million on two infrastructure programs to ensure that Canadians can charge coast to coast if driving their EV. In the coast-to-coast network, we are looking at having chargers every 65 kilometres on both sides of the highway. The reason we picked 65 kilometres—which is very much within the international standards for EV charging—is that even some of the lower technology vehicles have a range of at least 65 kilometres. Now many vehicles are well over 200 or 300 kilometres per battery recharge, but we wanted to ensure that there was quite frequent charging along the highways.

In 2019 we received an additional $130 million to get charging much closer to where Canadians work, live and play. It is really important to note that the lion's share of charging happens at home. The second most frequent charging happens at the workplace. Then you may think about highways and more public places. That is why, in our charging program, we are addressing all of those. We are addressing the highways, and having charging at home and in public places and the workplace.

[Raj Saini, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you.

The next question is for Transport Canada. As you're well aware, there was a recent report given to your department, the Dunsky Energy Consulting report, and one of the things they found is that this is mainly about supply. The supply has been reduced by 24%, and the supply is basically in two provinces. Madame Pauzé touched on this. I think that we need to change some of our policy direction.

When you look at B.C., Quebec, California, and Canada, the States or even China, they're adopting ZEV standards to make sure that they increase supply. Part of that is to give them certain credits they can trade or they can keep and sell to other companies. How are we going to incentivize companies to increase supply when it's already being done? Why are we not trying to make this pan-Canadian in some sort of way?

[Megan Nichols]

Certainly there is low inventory of some zero-emission vehicle models at Canadian dealerships, but despite that, we still have seen quite good uptake of the incentives for the zero-emission vehicle program across the country, even in provinces that do not have regulations or mandates for sales in place. We've seen significant increases. For example, in Saskatchewan in 2019 we saw sales increase by 95%. In Manitoba they were up by 71%. In Alberta, they were up by 53% from 2018 numbers.

That said, we know that we need a greater diversity of models in Canada to meet the needs of Canadians living in all types of communities and situations, and it's certainly something that's at the top of our minds. In terms of supply, we do recognize that it's an important element of making sure we meet our sales targets. As I said, that is why we continue to look at what additional measures would help us to achieve those.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

You can ask a very brief question.

[Raj Saini, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Has Environment Canada thought about the uptick that will be required in electricity consumption as more people are adopting this technology? Madame Vieira was right that 80% of the charging happens at home. The other 20% is either at work or somewhere else. If more and more people on a street continually charge more and more, there will be an electrical uptick. Have we thought about how we're going to manage that surge in electricity?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

You can give a very quick answer.

[Helen Ryan]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

The answer is yes. That is an issue that we are paying attention to, and we are looking at our electricity generation and supply system in order to be able to service the growing demand for electric vehicles.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you very much.

We now go to Madame Pauzé for two and a half minutes.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My question is for you, Ms. Vieira. In your brief, you refer to a hydrogen strategy for Canada. The Pembina Institute contrasts green hydrogen with grey hydrogen and blue hydrogen. Is that something you've taken into account?

[Paula Vieira]

Yes, absolutely. The hydrogen strategy will look at all pathways to hydrogen production. What's really important is not the colour. There's actually an international initiative, of which Canada is a leading part, that is looking to get away from colours.

What's really important is the carbon intensity of hydrogen. With CCUS, we can produce hydrogen from natural gas in Alberta and in Saskatchewan that has the same carbon intensity as hydrogen produced from clean power—for example, through electrolysis. It's really important that we focus on clean hydrogen as well as carbon intensity.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I'm going to stop you there, Ms. Vieira, since I have just two and a half minutes.

In Quebec, hydroelectricity can produce hydrogen.

My next question is for Mrs. Irwin.

Naturally, automakers want to make money and profits. Although there is a demand, it's not strong enough. The only way to stimulate production is to create a market that can't be ignored, and that requires regulations. Would you agree with that?

[Sharon Irwin]

With respect to your question as it relates to regulations, I would defer to my colleagues at environment and other departments to answer specifically anything related to that.

With respect to production, I think it's a fine balance in terms of our discussions with the industry, which is what ISED focuses on in understanding where the industry is at. There's a fine balance between the health of the industry, which is a major economic driver within the country, and supporting its transformation over a period of time, and the need to accelerate and to move more quickly towards electrification within our transportation sector in Canada. As—

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

You often mention transition—

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Ms. Pauzé, your time is up.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I don't even have 10 seconds left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Ms. Collins, you have the last word today, for two and a half minutes.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thanks so much.

Maybe I'll repeat my last question. It was about the work towards skills development, training and transition help for auto sector workers who have lost their jobs and who want to work in the electric vehicle production industry.