Environment Committee on June 2nd, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I will call this meeting to order. It's nice to see you all again, colleagues.

Before we get right into the clause-by-clause discussion, I just want to mention that we have with us today, Mr. Millar from the Department of Finance; Mr. Moffet from the Department of the Environment; and Mr. Vincent Ngan, director general, horizontal policy, engagement and coordination, Department of the Environment.

Also, I would like to take a moment to mention that you may, as members of this committee, have received an invitation to participate in a meeting on COP26. It's taking place on June 10 between 4 p.m. and 6 p.m. GMT.

What does GMT mean? What kind of time is that?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Angela Crandall]

That's Greenwich Mean Time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

That's 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. eastern time.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Chair, I am sorry to interrupt you, but there is no interpretation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Do you have it now, Madam Pauzé?

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

No, there is none. Could you say a little something in English so that we can see what's happening?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We seem to be having trouble with interpretation. Could somebody give me a thumbs-up?

I see somebody waving a hand.

Are we good now?

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

We have the interpretation now.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay, great.

I don't know if you heard any of this, Madam Pauzé, but we have with us Mr. Ngan from Environment and Climate Change Canada.

Also, members of the committee may have received an invitation to participate at a meeting on COP26 on June 10 between 4 p.m. and 6 p.m. Greenwich Mean Time, which is 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. eastern time. If you wish to participate, please contact the clerk, and she will provide the details for you.

On the good news front, we are able to do a three-hour meeting today. I'm not sure if we can get anything tomorrow, but we do have three hours today. I will break at around six o'clock, maybe a bit before, for 10 minutes. Then we can carry on with the second half of the meeting. The meeting will end at 7:35.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Chair, could I just slide in a small request to be sent that invitation for the meeting on COP26?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

My understanding was that everyone already received it.

Madam Clerk, can you make sure that Ms. May gets the invitation?

[The Clerk]

Definitely.

(On clause 11)

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We were at PV-19, which means that, Ms. May, you are up.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This one I'll give a bit of an explanation for. I have so many amendments.

I want to reference for members of the committee the amendment you've already passed that was brought forward by the government. It's amendment G-3, which includes the following: “Each greenhouse gas emissions target must represent a progression beyond the previous one.” My amendment is not only consistent; it buttresses this and frames it properly in the fact that we already have committed in the Paris Agreement to a principle that's called ratcheting up. In other words, any country may replace its nationally determined contribution at any time, but only to ratchet up.

I'm hoping that Raj Saini will see the benefit of making sure that we amend clause 11. We would add, “that is consistent with the purpose of this Act and with the commitment to ratchet up targets” within the meaning of “the Paris Agreement, done in Paris on December 12, 2015.” Again, it's just placing in the proper context how much we are already committed to, and in some additional amendments to Bill C-12, we reiterate commitments that we have made to only ratchet up.

I hope that this amendment will meet with your approval.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We have Madam Pauzé and Mr. Albas.

Ms. Pauzé, the floor is yours.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to lend my support to the amendment made by the member from the Green Party. In fact, amendment G-3, which was passed, also mentioned ratcheting up the targets. So I imagine that everyone will support amendment PV-19.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. Albas.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to ask the officials two questions.

One is certainly in regard to PV-19. The language that PV-19 entertains is the word “ratchet”. Is there anything in the definitions section? MP May had mentioned the progression element, that it was added in previously. Could you just explain, first of all, if there is any legal text within Bill C-12, under the definitions, for the word “ratchet”? How would that interface with progression?

[John Moffet, Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment]

I think I can answer that.

The term isn't used elsewhere in the act, as Ms. May has explained. It's a term that's used in the Paris Agreement, and her amendment references the Paris Agreement. My assumption would be that the term would be interpreted as it is used in the Paris Agreement.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Is there a legal term [Technical difficulty—Editor] agreement where it defines [Technical difficulty—Editor] understanding of the term?

[John Moffet]

I think it's just a common understanding that parties are expected to, over time, increase the stringency of their commitments.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Okay.

My second question is for Mr. Ngan, and I'll be very quick about this.

Horizontal policy.... Is there someone in your department who has vertical policy?

[Vincent Ngan, Director General, Horizontal Policy, Engagement and Coordination, Department of the Environment]

No, we don't.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

It's just an interesting term.

Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Seeing no further hands, I'll call the vote.

Madam Clerk, would you do a roll-call vote on PV-19.

(Amendment negatived: nays 10; yeas 1)