Environment Committee on June 2nd, 2021

[Émilie Thivierge]

Mr. Chair, if I may interrupt, I believe you said that G-11 was negatived.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Oh. I meant that it was carried. I'm sorry. It's been a long day.

[Émilie Thivierge]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Ms. May, you have 60 seconds, please. Then we have to move on.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

I'll use the 60 seconds, Mr. Chair, to ask this committee to read its own motion by which I am compelled to be here. It says that I am to be allowed to speak to every one of my amendments. That is a rule that has been observed by chairs in other committees.

Clearly, the amendment that just carried, G-11, speaks to some of the same areas but not with the same focus relating to ensuring that there be additional measures taken with the probability of achieving goals. It's a different turn of phrase from that used in Ms. Saks' amendment.

I believe my 60 seconds are likely up. Again, if you hadn't passed this motion, I wouldn't be here. If you hadn't passed your motion, I'd have more rights to present at report stage in the House of Commons.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay, understood.

We'll go to NDP-3.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Chair, I believe I spoke to this amendment prior, but I'll just read it into the record for anyone who's following along online.

Ms. Collins moves to amend clause 14 of Bill C-12 by adding after line 11 on page 6 the following:

(3) Any progress report relating to 2030 must include an update on the progress that has been made towards achieving the interim greenhouse gas emissions objective for 2026.

I believe it's fairly self-explanatory. It definitely strengthens the bill to have the 2026 objective in there. This simply ensures that the progress reports, as we discussed earlier, reference progress towards that interim objective.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Mr. Redekopp.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Mr. Chair, I had to pre-emptively raise my hand so that you didn't miss me while I was trying to figure out a few things.

Is this redundant, given the previous changes we've made to the reporting? I was just looking that up. It seems as though we already covered off the interim reporting with the reports in 2023, 2025 and 2027.

Perhaps Mr. Moffet or Mr. Ngan could explain that a bit better.

[John Moffet]

I don't think it's redundant. The previous amendment added new progress reports before 2030. Without this amendment, those progress reports would report on progress towards the 2030 target. This amendment clarifies that, among other things, those reports also have to include reporting on progress towards the 2026 interim objective.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Did we not have a big discussion about exactly this point, though, and the question that they would be reporting back on that? We also had the discussion about how many months it took to get the data from 2026, etc.

Perhaps the lateness of the day is causing my brain to miss the point here.

[John Moffet]

I thought the discussion was about our ability to report definitively about attainment of the 2026 objective, whereas this amendment is clear that the requirement is to report on progress towards.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

I think in that discussion, though, we did discuss that these interim reports would be addressing the 2026 targets. Yes, we did talk a lot about [Technical difficulty—Editor] the final targets, or interim or whatever.

Perhaps others can shed some light on this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

My system is very strange. It's showing Mr. Bachrach, but then I see Madam Pauzé.

Mr. Bachrach, I believe you were first.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I'll be very brief, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Redekopp is correct that we did just have this discussion, but in having that discussion, we were referencing this amendment, which hadn't yet come to the floor. I think that might be the source of the confusion. We did have quite a discussion, and voted on language that required this amendment, but this amendment had not yet come up for a vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I don't know if I've clarified anything, but there you have it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

That makes sense.

Madam Pauzé.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I'm not asking for clarification, but I want to remind you that an objective isn't a target. We are still going to vote in favour of the amendment, but I would like to point out that the amendment still doesn't say anything about a target.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay.

Mr. Albas, you have the floor.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Bachrach raised an interesting point, because sometimes we think that everyone who is watching right now has watched the entire presentation from our first hearing up until now.

I'm going to ask Mr. Moffet a couple of questions, and I'm sure Mr. Moffet will be relatively brief.

In regard to the interim greenhouse gas emissions objective, what would be in that? There's no definition in the bill.

[Vincent Ngan]

If I may, it would be similar to the milestone target of a specific level of emissions.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Mr. Moffet, you had said previously that it would include a number, but it would not be because it's prescribed exactly what a target is under the act. It's a very different thing, is it not?

[John Moffet]

What I explained previously, or tried to explain, was not so much that it's different in form from a target, but that a target in this bill comes with various obligations with respect to reporting, etc.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Could you explain what the obligations are under the target regime that was originally proposed in Bill C-12, and what the interim greenhouse gas emissions objectives are in terms of obligations?