Evidence of meeting #39 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
I believe everyone has received the proposed new clause 27.1.
This proposed new clause would require that a thorough review be conducted of the act's provisions and operation five years after the act comes into force. This would be done by a committee of either the Senate or the House of Commons, or both—it would be a joint committee. Parliament or one of the chambers, whatever the case may be, would set up or constitute that committee for that purpose.
So the Bloc Québécois is proposing this final amendment because it is in keeping with our values. While we were supportive of the work that went into clause-by-clause consideration and we acted with due diligence in that respect, I share the view of many here, as well as Mr. Albas and Ms. May, that Bill C‑12 should have gone to committee so that there would have been greater opportunity for more testimony and, more importantly, more time. It was foreseeable that questions would come up, that procedural issues would arise, and that we would receive a whole host of briefs and correspondence.
There's nothing unusual about the amendment I'm proposing, and I think all members of the committee are well aware of that, given the complexity of the subject matter this bill addresses. The quality of our environment is at stake. It is about our planet and our health. We're experiencing a drought right now. Quebec farmers are worried about their crops. Farmers feed us. So this is an important issue.
We feel it's critically important to be able to do this review exercise. A first review would happen in 2026. So we would have the commissioner of environment and sustainable development's report in 2024, and the 2023 and 2025 progress reports, which would provide data for the review.
In our view, it's all the more important to include this clause because we're in a climate emergency. I think everyone recognizes that. We need to be able to rectify this, not just in terms of what Bill C‑12 contains about plans and reports, but in terms of the legislation itself.
I will conclude by quoting Lord Deben, who chairs the Committee on Climate Change in the United Kingdom. Lord Deben says that there must be nothing less than a constant reminder. We must hammer home the reality and point out over and over again where climate change denial is leading us and the negative economic effects that flow from turning a blind eye. Canada needs to fully grasp what its behaviours and inaction on climate change are causing in other countries around the world.
I would add that every time we fail, Canadians continue to pollute more.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you, Ms. Pauzé.
The vote is called on Ms. Pauzé's amendment about adding a new clause, clause 27.1.
(Amendment agreed to: yeas 6; nays, 5 [See Minutes of Proceedings])
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Congratulations, Madam Pauzé.
(Clause 28 agreed to on division)
(On clause 29)
We're on PV-36.
Ms. May.
Green
Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC
Mr. Chair, if in discussing this amendment anyone from the government side is prepared to explain the way the current law is drafted, I'd appreciate that. Let me just explain what my amendment does.
The current language for proposed section 29, “Coming into Force”, states:
Section 23 comes into force on a day to be fixed by order of the Governor in Council.
On the question of why it would be that the aspect of the role of the Minister of Finance and the report of the Minister of Finance, of which much has been made in the way this bill has been promoted, why is that section carved out from the coming into force of the bill? Proposed section 23 would only come into force, under this, on the day fixed by order of the Governor in Council. We'd like the entire act to come into force the day after it has received royal assent. It makes it cleaner.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
I have a question for Mr. Ngan and Mr. Moffet.
Is there anything that specifically would cause issues with this act if this amendment were to be put in place? Is there anything with time schedules in terms of reporting? I can't think of any, but I'd like to hear from you.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
First of all, as a matter of standard judicial interpretation, the entire act will come into force on royal assent unless otherwise provided for in the act—the whole act, except for this provision.
On the reason for this provision, I'm going to defer to my colleague from the Department of Finance, who has been patiently waiting to address questions around this particular provision.
Mr. Millar.
Samuel Millar Director General, Corporate Finance, Natural Resources and Environment, Economic Development and Corporate Finance, Department of Finance
Thank you very much for the question.
This particular provision, clause 23 of the bill, deals with a report related to government operations and financial risks and opportunities of government operations. In a way, it's a little distinct from the rest of the bill, which deals more broadly with the economy writ large.
The logic of the coming into force is that we wanted to make sure that this report reflects the very latest in reporting that is currently under development around financial risks and opportunities. This clause would allow the government to take stock of that and make sure that the report is aligned to the maximum extent possible.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Mr. Millar, I do appreciate that, but ultimately this creates a bit of a loophole. Technically the law would be the law of the land, but the government would then get to choose when to start applying it after the Governor in Council says that it's coming into force. Is that correct?
Director General, Corporate Finance, Natural Resources and Environment, Economic Development and Corporate Finance, Department of Finance
That is correct. It's also a fairly standard element of bills.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Well, governments love to keep discretion.... What's the old term? Anyway, I think they wanted to keep that discretion to themselves.
(Amendment negatived: nays 6; yeas 5)
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Yes, that makes it exciting—playoff hockey, in a way, there.
(Clause 29 agreed to: yeas 7; nays 4)
(On clause 2)
The committee will remember that we agreed to postpone the study of clause 2. We are now ready to go back to clause 2.
The amendments that were submitted in relation to clause 2 start on page 1 of the package with BQ-1.
Green
Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC
Mr. Chair, if I may interrupt, I was previously informed that my amendments on the preamble would not be in order. I want to save you and others time, and I just ask that when it comes to that, because I am called to other business in the House, you withdraw my amendment.