Environment Committee on Nov. 4th, 2020

[John Moffet, Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment]

Hi. I can respond to that.

There are a bunch of components to that question.

On the clean fuel standard, we did indeed delay the rollout. We have back-ended it. That's quite deliberate, in response to two issues. One, of course, is the reduced capital available for investments at the moment due to the pandemic. The other is just the reality that for some of the major decarbonization activities that we're hoping to promote, it will take a number of years for those investments to actually result in reductions. That's appropriate to phase in the reductions.

Nonetheless, we do anticipate that by 2030 the clean fuel standard will drive—

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you so much. I'm just going to jump to my next question, which is about the actual spending on the low-carbon economy fund, which was 50.2% under budget. I'm just curious what the reasons for this underspending were. It was 2018-19 actual spending. How and to what extent have these kinds of underspending issues been addressed?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Who is responding? I've stopped your time, Ms. Collins.

[John Moffet]

We have a small technical issue here. Matt Jones is getting his headset reapplied. He'll probably be appearing as Helen Ryan.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Fair enough.

Mr. Ryan or Ms. Ryan, would you like to continue? You have 15 seconds.

Oh. I'll have to stop it again.

[John Moffet]

I would perhaps suggest that we get back to Ms. Collins with the answer so that we don't further delay the questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Her time is up, but I don't want her to go without being answered. This is our last round.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

I would love the 15- or 20-second answer. I would also love for them to follow up with some written material if there's more information beyond those 15 seconds.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Ms. Collins, I'll be a little generous with you because otherwise it's not fair, given all these technical difficulties.

Who is responding now?

Can somebody else respond?

[Carol Najm, Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services and Finance Branch, Department of the Environment]

I will, Madam Chair, if you'll permit me.

In answer to the original question, why the full monies were not spent on the LCEF, the high-level version is that due to COVID and the need for negotiations, the work didn't occur in time to use the money this fiscal year. That money has been reprofiled to the next fiscal year, when we will be able to continue the conversation and ensure that it is spent.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Madame Collins, for your patience.

We will now go to Monsieur Godin, for five minutes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the Environment and Climate Change Canada officials for making themselves available this evening. Now you, too, understand the technological reality of a hybrid Parliament and committee. I am actually here in person.

My question is about Environment and Climate Change Canada's estimates.

Under the 2019-20 main estimates, the total statutory vote is $94,569,422, but under the estimates to date, the vote is $206,017,525.

How do you explain the difference? What did you accomplish with the additional $111 million?

[Carol Najm]

Thank you for your question.

I will tell you that we have a number of...time-limited funding, where we need to go back and renew certain programs. That explains, high-level, the difference in funding available from year to year. We would be happy to provide the committee with additional details more specific to the question.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

A comparison of 2019-20 and 2020-21 reveals something interesting. Under main estimates, the total statutory vote is $206,017,525 for 2019-20, and $204,984,083 for 2020-21. The total budgetary vote under main estimates is $1,828,095,018, and the total budgetary vote under estimates to date is $1,962,992,504. To that $1,962,992,504, some $40 million has been added.

You are dragging along this so-called temporary expenditure. You start with a budget and you add to it. Here is the problem. You have to come back to the main estimates, not the estimates to date. If, as you say, they are temporary expenditures, they shouldn't be pushed into next year.

[Carol Najm]

Many of these programs are multi-year and have varying profiles from year to year. Depending on where it is and where the money is needed, the amount of funding per year will vary. That's why there are some shifts in the numbers.

Overall, when we do get—

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I have to stop you there. I understand, but does that mean you did not budget properly when you determined that the total statutory vote for the 2019-20 main estimates was $94,569,422? It went up to $206,017,525. The same mistake is made year after year, with Canadian taxpayers' money. You have to be mindful of that.

[Carol Najm]

We are very mindful when it comes to our department's expenditures.

That said, I can tell you that we work with many partners and stakeholders to deliver our programs.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Ms. Najm, I'm going to stop you there. I got the answers to my questions, even though I am not satisfied with them.

I'm not sure whether this next question is for you. It pertains to the goal of protecting 17% of Canada's land and freshwater by the end of 2020, and protecting 25% of these areas by 2025.

As I understand it, between 2005 and 2019, the proportion of protected land and freshwater went from 10.8% to 12.1%. That leaves 5% with a month and a half to go before the target deadline.

Is that realistic?

[Carol Najm]

I will ask my colleague Mr. O'Dea to answer that.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Very well.

[Niall O'Dea]

Thank you, Ms. Najm.

Thank you for your question. As far as our projections to date are concerned, we are aiming to achieve the target by 2023. It's going to take a little longer than anticipated because of the disruptions caused by the COVID-19—

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you. That's fine.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Mr. Godin, you are out of time. Thank you.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Madam Chair, I had a great question lined up, but I understand we must respect the clock.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

I know. You could always send your question over to the witnesses later.

The last one goes to Mr. Longfield.

You have five minutes.