Evidence of meeting #5 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was plan.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Alexandre Roger
Martine Dubuc  Associate Deputy Minister, Department of the Environment)sous-ministre déléguée, ministère de l'Environnement
Ron Hallman  President and Chief Executive Officer, Parks Canada Agency
Andrew Campbell  Senior Vice-President, Operations, Parks Canada Agency
Catherine Blanchard  Vice-President, Finance Directorate, Parks Canada Agency
Diane Campbell  Assistant Deputy Minister, Meteorological Service of Canada, Department of the Environment
Niall O'Dea  Assistant Deputy Minister, Canadian Wildlife Services, Department of the Environment
Darlene Upton  Vice-President, Protected Areas Establishment and Conservation, Parks Canada Agency
Matt Jones  Assistant Deputy Minister, Pan-Canadian Framework Implementation Office, Department of the Environment
Helen Ryan  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
John Moffet  Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
Carol Najm  Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services and Finance Branch, Department of the Environment
Terence Hubbard  Vice-President, Operations Sector, Impact Assessment Agency of Canada
Brent Parker  Acting Vice-President, Strategic Policy, Impact Assessment Agency of Canada

5:20 p.m.

John Moffet Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment

Hi. I can respond to that.

There are a bunch of components to that question.

On the clean fuel standard, we did indeed delay the rollout. We have back-ended it. That's quite deliberate, in response to two issues. One, of course, is the reduced capital available for investments at the moment due to the pandemic. The other is just the reality that for some of the major decarbonization activities that we're hoping to promote, it will take a number of years for those investments to actually result in reductions. That's appropriate to phase in the reductions.

Nonetheless, we do anticipate that by 2030 the clean fuel standard will drive—

5:20 p.m.

NDP

Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC

Thank you so much. I'm just going to jump to my next question, which is about the actual spending on the low-carbon economy fund, which was 50.2% under budget. I'm just curious what the reasons for this underspending were. It was 2018-19 actual spending. How and to what extent have these kinds of underspending issues been addressed?

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Who is responding? I've stopped your time, Ms. Collins.

November 4th, 2020 / 5:20 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment

John Moffet

We have a small technical issue here. Matt Jones is getting his headset reapplied. He'll probably be appearing as Helen Ryan.

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Fair enough.

Mr. Ryan or Ms. Ryan, would you like to continue? You have 15 seconds.

Oh. I'll have to stop it again.

5:20 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment

John Moffet

I would perhaps suggest that we get back to Ms. Collins with the answer so that we don't further delay the questions.

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Her time is up, but I don't want her to go without being answered. This is our last round.

5:20 p.m.

NDP

Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC

I would love the 15- or 20-second answer. I would also love for them to follow up with some written material if there's more information beyond those 15 seconds.

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Ms. Collins, I'll be a little generous with you because otherwise it's not fair, given all these technical difficulties.

Who is responding now?

Can somebody else respond?

5:20 p.m.

Carol Najm Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services and Finance Branch, Department of the Environment

I will, Madam Chair, if you'll permit me.

In answer to the original question, why the full monies were not spent on the LCEF, the high-level version is that due to COVID and the need for negotiations, the work didn't occur in time to use the money this fiscal year. That money has been reprofiled to the next fiscal year, when we will be able to continue the conversation and ensure that it is spent.

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Madame Collins, for your patience.

We will now go to Monsieur Godin, for five minutes.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the Environment and Climate Change Canada officials for making themselves available this evening. Now you, too, understand the technological reality of a hybrid Parliament and committee. I am actually here in person.

My question is about Environment and Climate Change Canada's estimates.

Under the 2019-20 main estimates, the total statutory vote is $94,569,422, but under the estimates to date, the vote is $206,017,525.

How do you explain the difference? What did you accomplish with the additional $111 million?

5:25 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services and Finance Branch, Department of the Environment

Carol Najm

Thank you for your question.

I will tell you that we have a number of...time-limited funding, where we need to go back and renew certain programs. That explains, high-level, the difference in funding available from year to year. We would be happy to provide the committee with additional details more specific to the question.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

A comparison of 2019-20 and 2020-21 reveals something interesting. Under main estimates, the total statutory vote is $206,017,525 for 2019-20, and $204,984,083 for 2020-21. The total budgetary vote under main estimates is $1,828,095,018, and the total budgetary vote under estimates to date is $1,962,992,504. To that $1,962,992,504, some $40 million has been added.

You are dragging along this so-called temporary expenditure. You start with a budget and you add to it. Here is the problem. You have to come back to the main estimates, not the estimates to date. If, as you say, they are temporary expenditures, they shouldn't be pushed into next year.

5:25 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services and Finance Branch, Department of the Environment

Carol Najm

Many of these programs are multi-year and have varying profiles from year to year. Depending on where it is and where the money is needed, the amount of funding per year will vary. That's why there are some shifts in the numbers.

Overall, when we do get—

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

I have to stop you there. I understand, but does that mean you did not budget properly when you determined that the total statutory vote for the 2019-20 main estimates was $94,569,422? It went up to $206,017,525. The same mistake is made year after year, with Canadian taxpayers' money. You have to be mindful of that.

5:25 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services and Finance Branch, Department of the Environment

Carol Najm

We are very mindful when it comes to our department's expenditures.

That said, I can tell you that we work with many partners and stakeholders to deliver our programs.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Ms. Najm, I'm going to stop you there. I got the answers to my questions, even though I am not satisfied with them.

I'm not sure whether this next question is for you. It pertains to the goal of protecting 17% of Canada's land and freshwater by the end of 2020, and protecting 25% of these areas by 2025.

As I understand it, between 2005 and 2019, the proportion of protected land and freshwater went from 10.8% to 12.1%. That leaves 5% with a month and a half to go before the target deadline.

Is that realistic?

5:25 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services and Finance Branch, Department of the Environment

Carol Najm

I will ask my colleague Mr. O'Dea to answer that.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Very well.

5:25 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Canadian Wildlife Services, Department of the Environment

Niall O'Dea

Thank you, Ms. Najm.

Thank you for your question. As far as our projections to date are concerned, we are aiming to achieve the target by 2023. It's going to take a little longer than anticipated because of the disruptions caused by the COVID-19—

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Thank you. That's fine.

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Mr. Godin, you are out of time. Thank you.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Madam Chair, I had a great question lined up, but I understand we must respect the clock.

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

I know. You could always send your question over to the witnesses later.

The last one goes to Mr. Longfield.

You have five minutes.