Evidence of meeting #8 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was vehicle.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Breton, earlier we talked about the capacity to generate the electricity to meet demand. We know that any change made in a market requires a period of transition and adaptation.
Wouldn't it cause problems if we suddenly put a large number of zero-emission vehicles on the road without installing recharging stations?
If, tomorrow morning, manufacturers managed to build enough electric vehicles to meet consumer demand, do you think the recharging station network could meet demand in the following three months?
5:25 p.m.
President and Chief Operating Officer, Electric Mobility Canada
No, but no manufacturer could meet demand in the following three months.
That will all happen gradually. More and more stations are being installed across North America every week. Infrastructure is extremely important; you're entirely right about that.
People tend to think the problem's related to highway infrastructure. In fact, it occurs more frequently in downtown areas. Many people can charge their electric cars at home. That's where more than 80% of recharging is done. However, people living in condo towers who can't plug in their cars need quick-charging level 2 street chargers. The Canadian government and provincial governments will have to look into that.
Incidentally, just a few days ago, calls were made in Edmonton for more recharging stations to be installed in that city.
You're correct in saying that infrastructure has to follow. Natural Resources Canada has established a recharging station installation program. As it's all rolled out in exponential fashion—we're already seeing this—more and more stations will be required. The British Columbia example is indicative of this. Ontario and Manitoba will have to go with the flow.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
Thank you, Mr. Breton.
I probably expressed myself poorly when I asked my question. I'm well aware of the fact that manufacturers won't be able to produce high-quality electric vehicles in the next three months, but they'll eventually have to produce them to meet future market needs.
Mr. Adams, what do you think of Quebec's program to reduce the number of gas vehicles to zero starting 2035?
Will your industry be able to meet needs or will Quebec be neglected?
5:25 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Global Automakers of Canada
That's an interesting question. I think if you look around the world, lots of different countries are setting targets for banning internal combustion engine vehicles.
I think the reality is going to be more what consumers will do if their choice of the new vehicles that they want to buy is somewhat limited. If they're all EVs, there may be some people who don't want to buy an EV. What are they going to do? They'll continue to drive their used vehicle, or they'll import a vehicle from elsewhere. That's neither beneficial to Quebec business, nor to Quebec air quality, I would say, because they're just keeping older vehicles on the road longer.
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
I'd encourage you to improve the way you produce electric vehicles so you can speed things up and meet the demand. I would also remind you that there are waiting lists in Quebec and British Columbia. If there was a supply, I'm convinced consumers would be ready to buy, and I don't think it's a matter of subsidies. It's much more a matter of availability. The industry has a great opportunity to make its contribution. I'm convinced it will be profitable for you given the investments you're making and the expenses you're incurring.
You have to bear in mind that designing a new product costs a lot of money at the outset, but it becomes profitable later on. If you're prepared to share your profits in the 10, 15, 20 or 30 years, subsidies may be warranted. If you say that you don't want subsidies, that you're going to invest and that you won't share future profits, I don't see any problem with that.
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you.
Ms. O'Connell, why don't you take us home?
You have four minutes, please.
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I feel compelled to perhaps correct the record of what we heard today for those who may not have understood. The demand and the access is an issue, because the EVs are being sent to jurisdictions where there are incentives or regulations. Therefore, incentives and regulations equal demand, which is ultimately helping consumers and the environment, if this is what is called an honourable goal. We've heard testimony stating that without the incentives, demand has dropped in the case of Ontario. Where there are incentives, there is demand. I just felt that this point has to be clarified.
My question is for Mr. Pocard. I'm sorry you haven't been able to get on, but I did actually have a question for you. I'm not as familiar with your industry, so forgive me.
You spoke about support for R and D, which is always great. Canada tends to be a leader in research and development, but where we tend to fall short is the commercialization of it. How, as a Canadian government, can we make investments that would ultimately also help commercialization, and then ensure that the costs are passed on to Canadian consumers? I ask because we've talked a lot about this industry and the jurisdictions that are building or manufacturing vehicles that are more affordable in those same jurisdictions.
If we make this investment, how do we commercialize it here, so that Canadians ultimately reap that benefit from that investment—outside of the environmental goals obviously—in terms of commercialization and economic goals for the average Canadian?
5:30 p.m.
Director, Marketing, Ballard Power Systems Inc.
Today Canada is uniquely placed, with companies like Ballard and others. In Canada, we really have leadership in technology development and then we are providing.... Today at Ballard, we are exporting 100% of our fuel-cell systems outside of Canada. We sell our engines to U.S., China, as well as Europe.
One way to help would be to create demand here in Canada, as we discussed...everything requesting ZEV mandates. Especially for heavy-duty mobility buses and trucks, as long as it's technology neutral, I would actually invest in that. As long it meets the objective of having zero-emissions, regardless of whether it's battery-electric or fuel-cell electric, it doesn't really matter. Canada has a chance to be able to locally produce fuel-cell technology using Canadian IP and workers here. It doesn't require a lot of minerals, imports or anything. It's just standard construction material.
We have an opportunity to build on this industry here, but we need to create the demand for vehicles. Whenever we have opportunity with those 5,000 zero-emission buses, we need to make sure that both technologies—battery-electric and fuel-cell electric—have a chance to be deployed. It's up to the user to define what technology fits the best for the use case. It's for heavy-duty trucks, long-haul transportation and longer route coaches where hydrogen provides that path to decarbonization and zero-emission mobility.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Ms. O'Connell, we have only maybe 15 seconds left for a comment.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON
I just want to make sure that it's not as much of the front-end R and D, but more of the demand investment that is needed.
5:35 p.m.
Director, Marketing, Ballard Power Systems Inc.
Yes, absolutely.
Thank you.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Perfect. Thank you.
This is really fascinating. We've had an opportunity to ask some very good questions.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Schiefke Liberal Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
My question concerns our next meeting. We'll be able to discuss this after we thank our guests. I'd like to know whether our committee will be meeting on Monday.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
We've had some good answers. I think this has really contributed to our thinking.
On Monday, we'll meet with the analysts to discuss the structure of the report. We'll be able to give them some instructions.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Schiefke Liberal Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
I asked that question because, at 4 p.m., the Minister of Finance will be delivering...
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Schiefke Liberal Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
At 4 p.m., do we want to continue the meeting or go to the House to listen to the Minister of Finance's speech?
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
I'm going to release the witnesses. Thank you very much for the time you have spent informing us.
Thank you to the witnesses.
We will take 15 minutes to do the transition. We won't go in camera, but we will release the witnesses.