Environment Committee on April 30th, 2024

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

It sounds like it's going to be a point of debate, but go ahead.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

To correct the record again, the commissioner of the environment and sustainable development has indicated that we're on track to meeting our 2026 targets.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I'm sorry. That's a point of debate.

Mr. Mazier.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Thank you.

To address Ms. Collins's comments on the targets, the real problem is that we can't even find out the information and whether it's actually true. We believed the Liberals up until the commissioner said there was a problem with reaching these targets. Whether they are going to reach them or not, there's still doubt, and if he can't find out whether that's really true and he can't prove it, then it's up to us to try to prove it.

That's all we're asking for. Is this model accurate? Does this model exist? How do you prove that things are actually going in the right direction? We're all genuinely concerned about this.

I can't emphasize enough that all we're asking for is the model. Please prove to us, government, that this is actually working.

How does it work? I think it would be great for all of us MPs to understand how this model works. That way, we could probably improve it. However, we have to know the numbers. That's simply all we've been asking for.

Also to Ms. Collins, we reached out to the Office of the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel. In my presentation, I referred to that. There was absolutely no reason why this information was withheld under the Statistics Act, and I think that throws up an even bigger flag. Why would they even put that statement in there if they weren't trying to hide something?

I think on that point alone there is definitely a breach of privilege, and we need to get to the bottom of it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. van Koeverden.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Once again, I would just like to stress that the people who read the email are satisfied that they will receive additional information, per the request of the Conservative Party, on modelling and some math to explicitly indicate how carbon pricing works. I'd also just repeat that the letter from the 300 economists detailing this further is worthwhile reading if people are interested.

I've already indicated that the Liberal side is not interested in this question of privilege. We feel we should move on, and the quicker we move on, the quicker we can get to the Bloc Québécois's study on climate finance so we can delve a bit more deeply into this subject.

It doesn't seem like we're getting anywhere towards a vote, so, Mr. Chair, I move to adjourn this meeting.

[An hon. member]

You can't for a motion of privilege.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I haven't ruled yet, so there is no real motion, I don't think, on the table—yet.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

It's a motion of privilege.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I'll hear from Mr. Leslie, and then I'll give you my opinion.

Are you done, Mr. van Koeverden?

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Well, I'm asking to adjourn the meeting. It's quite done.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

If you're done, you can walk out.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I don't think we can do that. We can't adjourn—

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

That's what you guys do. You throw a tantrum. It's pretty pathetic, actually.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Colleagues, you can't speak, and you have to go through the chair.

I don't believe we can adjourn while the chair is in the process of ruling on a question related to privilege. I don't think we can do that.

I'll go to Mr. Leslie, and then I'll—

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

It's Ms. Collins.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I'm sorry.

Ms. Collins, is that a new hand up?

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

It is a new hand, yes. I just have a point of clarification.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay, go ahead.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

I'm just wondering about process. This seems like something you're still deciding on. You're trying to figure out which way you'll rule on the privilege motion. Is this something that you could go away with and come back to us on?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

No, I think I have a pretty solid point of view at this point—

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

—but I will hear from Mr. Leslie.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Chair, you said “but”. It sounds like you have your mind made up. What if I convince you?