Evidence of meeting #105 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Thank you, Chair.
This is simply ensuring that there's no extra spending going on.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
It's not impossible. What will happen is that it will get to the end of the rope, and then all of a sudden they'll say that they have some extra spending, so the bill will get defeated. I don't think we want to see this happen to the private member's bill.
I would just ask everybody to please consider the importance of not having any new spending when they're developing the strategy. That's all we're talking about, to make sure it's there.
Liberal
The Acting Chair Liberal John Aldag
I don't have anyone else on my speaking list, so we're ready to call the question on CPC-1. For this one, we'll do a recorded vote. There has been some discussion.
(Amendment negatived: nays 7; yeas 4 [See Minutes of Proceedings])
(Clause 2 as amended agreed to)
(On clause 3)
Liberal
The Acting Chair Liberal John Aldag
We'll now move to clause 3. First up, I have a Liberal amendment, LIB-1, which was put forward by Ms. Taylor Roy.
Would you like to move it?
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Yes, it's just a simple change to include the Minister of Housing, Infrastructure and Communities in the list of ministers to be consulted, because, as we know, infrastructure and housing are very important when you're talking about flood and drought planning.
Liberal
The Acting Chair Liberal John Aldag
Does anyone have any comments on this one?
Seeing none, we'll call the question on LIB-1.
(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
Next up we have amendment CPC-2.
Mr. Kram, this was yours. Would you like to move it?
Conservative
Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK
Yes, and I can speak to it now if I still have the floor.
The committee has received a couple of letters from the Insurance Bureau of Canada and the Insurance Brokers Association of Canada. One explicitly asks to be included in the public consultation process outlined in this bill.
I think it's quite evident that the insurance sector can play a very positive role in protecting Canadians from flooding and from losing their property. We have heard that many Canadians are not eligible for flood insurance. Anything we can do to increase the level of certainty in the marketplace for the insurance sector can only be a good thing to increase Canadians' eligibility for property insurance.
We also have to be mindful of some potential unintended consequences of this bill. If this new flood forecasting system works too well, we would not want that to cause some homeowners or property owners to become uninsurable. Therefore, to make sure that we can achieve the full benefits of this bill, I would like to move this motion to make sure the insurance sector is explicitly included.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Liberal
The Acting Chair Liberal John Aldag
Thank you for that explanation of your amendment.
Before I go to my speaking list, I'm going to make one comment here. If CPC-2 is adopted, Liberal-2 cannot be moved due to a line conflict. As House of Commons Procedure and Practice, third edition, states on page 769:
Amendments must be proposed following the order of the text to be amended. Once a line of a clause has been amended by the committee, it cannot be further amended by a subsequent amendment as a given line may be amended only once.
I wanted to make sure that everybody is aware of that.
Now, for the speaking order, I have Ms. Taylor Roy, and then Mr. van Koeverden.
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to make a subamendment to the amendment, so LIB-2 could be included.
Liberal
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
It is in writing. It was distributed, I believe.
Liberal
The Acting Chair Liberal John Aldag
Okay. The reference number, so everybody has it, is 13047345, in the top left-hand corner of page 3, for Bill C-317, in both English and French.
Ms. Taylor Roy, I'll go to you to move your subamendment and to speak to it. Then we'll have a discussion on the subamendment.
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Yes, it is so moved, and I think people have it in front of them. It's just to replace lines 4 to 11 on page 3 with a different section, which brings in what LIB-2 had:
(c) an assessment of opportunities to develop national flood and drought forecasting across Canada in order to help meet the information needs of the provinces, municipalities, industry, including the insurance industry, and Indigenous communities in respect of short- and long-term flood and drought forecasting, including current and future flood-plain delineation; and
Then it reverts back to what was in CPC-2.
Liberal
The Acting Chair Liberal John Aldag
Thank you.
Ms. Collins, did you want to speak to the subamendment?
Liberal
The Acting Chair Liberal John Aldag
Okay. I'll come back to you once we get through the subamendment.
Mr. Longfield, do you want to speak to the subamendment?
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
Thanks, Chair. You're doing a great job, by the way.
I like the idea of including the insurance industry, and I also like the idea of not losing anything out of LIB-2, but I wonder if the officials have any comments.
Technically, from your shop, does this make sense?
Executive Director, Legislative Governance, Department of the Environment
As I understand it, the two amendments are being combined and the insurance industry is being included in the amendment that had been previously proposed. If that is how I understand it, it makes sense to us.
Liberal
The Acting Chair Liberal John Aldag
I don't have anybody else on the speaking list. Does anybody else want to speak?
Seeing no one, we'll call the question on the subamendment. On this one, we can do a recorded vote.
(Subamendment agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0 [See Minutes of Proceedings])
Liberal
The Acting Chair Liberal John Aldag
The subamendment carries. Now we'll move to a discussion of CPC-2 as amended.
Ms. Collins, you're first on my speaking list for CPC-2 as amended.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
I'm just going to ask the officials about the process in terms of whether this is a helpful addition, if the insurance industry would have been excluded from this. In the study of this bill, I had some questions around how certain areas might not be insurable and also on wanting to make sure that we hold insurance companies accountable if people who are being insured are suddenly seeing their premiums go up or finding their house uninsurable. I was just curious about what this means from the officials' perspective, specifically the piece around the inclusion of the insurance companies in this.
Executive Director, Legislative Governance, Department of the Environment
I'll respond to the first part of your question, and then I'll pass it on to my colleague, who might wish to add more detail.
With respect to the first question, on whether the language of the current text would have excluded consultation with the insurance industry, I think that's a no. It's not an exhaustive list. The way the provision is framed, this is a list of groups the minister must consult with in developing the strategy, but it doesn't say that there are others the minister cannot consult with.
With respect to details about whether or not the insurance industry may have been included and considered as part of how “industry” is framed, I might ask my colleague from the national hydrological services if he has anything to add.
