Environment Committee on May 2nd, 2024

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

—I move to adjourn debate on this for now so that we can be respectful to our officials and the commissioner and discuss it further—

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

You're adjourning debate on a model that he just admitted he doesn't have access to.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

You're in shock.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

I am. I'm very shocked, actually.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We'll have a vote on adjourning debate. Then basically we're done with the meeting, because you've given up your time, Mr. Mazier.

Let's vote on adjourning debate and, effectively, adjourning the meeting.

(Motion negatived: nays 6; yeas 5)

We're debating the motion for the next 15 minutes.

We have Mr. Leslie and Madame Chatel.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay.

Is there anyone else to take us to 5:45?

Would you like to comment, Mr. Trudel?

What about you, Mr. Morrice?

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Okay. I'll get on the list.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Wait a minute.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

I'll get on the list.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay, Mr. van Koeverden.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Just hang on a second.

On a point of order, go ahead, Mr. van Koeverden

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Out of deep respect for all the experts in the room, our amazing officials, the commissioner and all of the people who came to this place for a meeting, I would ask that you tell them they're free to leave. The circus is about to begin.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you for being here. It has been very informative. I know a lot of work goes into these reports.

It's always a pleasure to have you here, Commissioner. It's always very informative and insightful. Thank you, and thank you to all the officials.

We'll start debating Mr. Mazier's motion.

We have Madam Chatel.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

According to the inventory report, there has been remarkable progress in terms of electricity compared to 2002. There was also a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions in some sectors, including transport, heavy industry, waste and agriculture. But it's still a challenge for the oil and gas sector.

The motion before us addresses the government's tool box, which is attempting to invest in new technologies with a view to reducing greenhouse gas emissions. I'm sure that everyone here, including my Conservative colleagues, would like us to be able to reduce these emissions. But you can't just wave a magic wand.

Governments have to step in, as they have in economies around the world. How do they intervene? As we know, one approach is to invest massively in technology—that's something my Conservative colleagues talk about often. That's how to achieve a carbon neutral economy. It's the first tool in the box.

The second tool—

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

There's a point of order.

Mr. Mazier.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

I don't know what that has to do with the motion. We're just asking for a model. We should be debating either why we want to see the model or why we don't want to see the model.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

It's precisely the tool box of—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I was helping the clerk, so I didn't hear everything Madam Chatel had to say.

I'll let Madam Chatel continue.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

I'll clarify the point I want to make, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Mazier, what I'm saying is highly relevant, because the net zero accelerator initiative is precisely the investment tool box. The motion asks whether it's effective.

With this tool box, I think we'll get there. In your motion, you conclude that it's perhaps not the best tool. Billions of dollars have to be invested in the technology. That being the case, what other options are there? Two other tools can be used—I've already spoken about the first.

The second tool would be the introduction of regulations, as was done for plastic. Because we want to stop using plastic, regulations were introduced. The government tells us what we ought and ought not to do.

The third tool would be to place a ceiling on oil sector emissions.

If investment isn't working, as you claim in your motion, what other options are there, Mr. Mazier? There could be a ceiling on emissions or—

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

One moment please, Ms. Chatel.

Mr. Mazier, go ahead for your point of order.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Just for clarification, I'll read the motion again, since you're talking about a cap on emissions and all that. It says, “the committee order the production of (i) the government's complete”—