Evidence of meeting #106 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was reductions.
A video is available from Parliament.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
Mr. Chair, I'm sorry. I was having trouble technically, but it looks as though it has started working again.
Liberal
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
It would have been possible to begin reducing embodied carbon emissions a long time ago. The government now needs to make up for lost time and do something about embodied carbon. We recommended that steel should be the top priority.
The issue is also related to the net zero accelerator initiative. If the government wants to encourage greener building materials, then it also has to improve its funding programs.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
It's true, Commissioner, that investment in new technologies is needed to reduce emissions, and we all want to reduce emissions.
I'd like to conclude with a general comment. The Canadians who work in the oil sector are Canadians. The Canadian energy sector belongs to all Canadians. If we produce oil in Canada, it's because Canadians need it. If we stop producing it in Canada, it will be produced elsewhere. If it's done elsewhere, we'll be sending billions of dollars to other countries instead of having the oil industry contribute to Canada's economy.
It's true that we're facing some challenges, but the oil industry is striving to reduce emissions. It's true, of course, that more effort is needed. We all want to reduce emissions. But we won't accomplish that by insulting the Canadians who work in the oil industry and telling them that only the Canadian oil industry is at fault, rather than all Canadians. I don't share that point of view.
For as long as we need energy from oil, as we do in Quebec, where there's been a 7% increase—
Liberal
Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON
On a point of order, Mr. Chair, this isn't a question; this is a lecture.
Conservative
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Once again, I want to thank the commissioner and all of his team, because the observations they make and the feedback we get help to improve performance, and we learn from those things.
I want to comment about my colleague's comments on the oil and gas sector. I don't believe that we are criticizing Canadians who work in the oil and gas sector. I think one of the questions we've had is how sincere these large multinational corporations, which are making record profits, have been in making progress on emissions reductions.
I'd like to ask about the NZA. In the NZA, of the 55 largest emitters, only two signed agreements and 15 put in applications. I'm wondering if the lack of participation of the oil and gas sector in this program is somehow an indication that they're not that sincere about making these changes.
Do you have any comments there? Why do you think the oil and gas sector has not been more concerned about participating in some of the programs that could help make disruptive technology or transformative changes? We see what's happening in Alberta, where renewable energy sources or renewable energy methodologies are being put on hold. We've had CEOs say that they're not interested in any of that anymore, especially Suncor. Perhaps you could comment on that for me.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
I'll start by saying that the NZA doesn't target all of the sectors in Canada that have emissions. It is focused on manufacturing and industry.
Perhaps Mr. Lequain can help explain that a bit more clearly.
Principal, Office of the Auditor General
In the NZA, some projects are developing technology that could serve all industries—oil and gas and other industries, such as steel and aluminum.
It's not industry-driven; it's more technology-driven, and some technology could apply to multiple sectors such as oil and gas and steel. This is what we saw.
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Since they're so large, have invested in so much and are making so much profit, could oil and gas companies be leading the way in trying to develop some of these new technologies or innovative ways to address the emissions coming from their sector?
Principal, Office of the Auditor General
I'm not sure I understood the question. I'm sorry.
Projects that are financed through the net-zero accelerator, could apply to.... You need a technology. You need a technical answer to an emission. You can think of, for example, some technology like CCUS or filters for carbon capture. You need a technology.
It's not necessarily the company in the industry that has a technical solution, but it can become a user of this technology. This is why—
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Are you saying that they could not apply if they wanted to develop some technology on their own that could—
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Okay, but they haven't. They haven't shown any interest in investing money into developing technologies that they could use to reduce their emissions.
Principal, Office of the Auditor General
Well, there are some companies in the oil industry that applied to the SIF-NZA for a solution to produce some products with a lower footprint.
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Sure, but have any of these large multinational oil and gas companies taken any interest in actually working to develop these technologies to solve their own problems? They have the Pathways Alliance, which I'm assuming from all the advertising is interested in doing that.
Principal, Office of the Auditor General
Well, again, you need to have a technical solution. We looked at who applied. We looked at the large emitters. We noted that the process was long; the process was time-consuming. That could explain why some big emitters did not apply.
It could also be, as we said in one recommendation, that the SIF-NZA is one element in a whole-of-government strategy. You could have tax incentives. You could have grants and contributions. You could have regulations. You have to look at the results of the SIF-NZA and the whole approach of the government. That is why we would like to see a strategy. It's not only about the design of a specific program. It's also about how this program fits within other—
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Yes, I understand. I was just trying to understand the way in which—
Liberal
Liberal
Bloc
Denis Trudel Bloc Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Of the people seated behind the commissioner, who represents the department?
Is there a departmental spokesperson here, Mr. DeMarco?
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
What department are you talking about?
