Environment Committee on June 18th, 2024

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

That's not a point of order.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

I think it's condescending and rude, and I'd ask that all members respect our witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

That's not a point of order.

Ms. Taylor Roy, go ahead.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order on the relevance of the questioning. We're talking about the main estimates here. The program the member opposite is referring to is not in these estimates, and the officials here are not responsible for this program. I'm wondering if this line of questions is actually relevant.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

That's a good point, since the program is not—

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

The officials actually brought up the net-zero accelerator, and it's in the minister's mandate letter. It's talking about emissions reductions, so it's 100% inside the—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Ms. Collins, go ahead on another point of order.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

On this point, I want to put in my word that if the officials bring something up, I think it's a fair thing for us to ask about.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

That is unless they're bringing something up that's outside the ambit of their mandate.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Just to clarify, we invited officials from that department to be here today, and they refused. Is that correct?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

No, they're coming, but we agreed that they'd come in the fall.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

I thought the deputy minister couldn't come today and that's why we couldn't have them here.

We've tried; that is my point.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes. He couldn't come today, but we've agreed to look at the whole issue of the net-zero accelerator in great detail in the fall rather than only look at it partially today.

Go ahead, Mr. Mazier, but Mr. Tremblay has given the same answer twice. I think maybe you might want to move on to another topic.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

The deputy minister responsible for emissions reductions doesn't know anything about emissions reductions. Is that true?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I think this is the third time now. This is becoming a bit of badgering of the witness.

I like robust debate at committee, as you know, but I think....

[Jean-François Tremblay]

There are more than 80 initiatives under the plans for climate change. There are more than 80 programs, and each program has I don't know how many projects. You should not expect me to come here on behalf of all those people without being briefed in advance and have answers about each project that is funded under each program that exists in the federal government.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. Mazier, go ahead.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Mr. Tremblay, the Liberal government gave away $551 million to a company by the name of Umicore through the net-zero accelerator fund, which you've mentioned, and you're responsible for emissions reductions. Umicore is a Belgian company that made over $27 billion in revenue last year.

How many emissions are supposed to be reduced directly from this $551-million handout?

[Jean-François Tremblay]

I'm not responsible for emissions reductions. Everybody is responsible within the government for the emissions reductions they're supposed to make through their own programs. We are responsible for coordination and support of other departments in the way they develop their programs, but as I mentioned before, the accountability is still with each department to manage the programs it has.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, I'd like to move the following motion:

Given that

The Liberal government released its internal economic data on the carbon tax, revealing it costs Canadians $30.5 billion and over $1800 for every household in Canada;

This is in addition to the increased costs the carbon tax puts on gas, groceries and home heating;

The Liberal government tried to cover up this information from Canadians; and

When the Parliamentary Budget Officer revealed that the Liberal government had this data they placed him under a gag order and attempted to ruin his reputation;

The committee report to the House that the environment minister must resign immediately.

Mr. Chair, Minister Guilbeault needs to resign. Minister Guilbeault has been caught hiding a damning report from Canadians. Canada's budget watchdog, the Parliamentary Budget Officer, revealed that the Liberals were hiding a secret report from Canadians. Not only did we learn that the Liberals were keeping this internal carbon tax report a secret from Canadians, but we also learned that they placed a gag order on Canada's budget watchdog. Yes, the Liberals silenced the Parliamentary Budget Officer with a gag order, preventing him from speaking about the damning piece of evidence.

We must ask ourselves, why would the government hide its own economic analysis of the carbon tax? Well, we know why.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I have a point of order.

I'm looking at the motions that we have notices of motion for, and this isn't one of them. Is this a notice of a new motion? If so, we probably shouldn't be debating it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Let's find out.

Notice was given on the 13th.

Mr. Mazier.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

We must ask ourselves, why would the government hide its own economic analysis of the carbon tax? Well, now we know. The government's internal carbon tax analysis revealed that the cost of the carbon tax will be more than $30 billion per year. That's almost $2,000 per family.

For years, Minister Guilbeault told Canadians that the carbon tax wouldn't cost them, but now we know that Minister Guilbeault willingly chose to vandalize Canada's economy with the carbon tax. He knew that the carbon tax was going to harm our economy. He knew that the carbon tax was going to cost Canadian families, but he chose to plow ahead with his carbon tax hikes anyway. Minister Guilbeault is an economic vandal. He needs to resign.

After nine years of this Liberal government, Canada is broken. Food is up. Gas is up. Home heating is up. In the middle of a cost of living crisis, Minister Guilbeault chose to punish Canadians with a carbon tax. The fact that Minister Guilbeault kept his economic analysis a secret from Canadians is absurd. How can Minister Guilbeault be trusted? What else is he keeping secret from Canadians?

In testifying before our committee, Minister Guilbeault was asked if he planned on increasing the carbon tax over $170 per tonne past 2030. He refused to rule out further carbon tax hikes. I asked the environment minister at committee, “Has your government decided whether it will increase the carbon tax over $170 a tonne past 2030? Give me a yes or no.” The environment minister dared to respond with “I'm not obliged to answer yes or no to those questions.”

The fact that his carbon tax will cost the Canadian economy over $30 billion per year doesn't bother Minister Guilbeault. The environment minister doesn't believe that he needs to tell Canadians if he plans to hike the tax on gas, heat and groceries even further. I encourage all members of the committee to ask Canadians if they have confidence in Minister Guilbeault. If they did, they would quickly realize that most Canadians want Minister Guilbeault to go, and I agree. I represent a completely rural constituency. No minister in this government has inflicted more harm on rural Canada than Minister Guilbeault. Minister Guilbeault has to go, and that is right now.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. van Koeverden.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Over a year ago, the Canadian Climate Institute issued a statement that said that the PBO's latest carbon pricing report had big flaws. It took a little bit over a year for the Parliamentary Budget Officer to re-quantify the economic effects of carbon pricing and issue the statement that there were flaws in his 2022 and 2023 report. We respect and appreciate the work of the PBO, and we're looking forward to their clarification this fall.

I'd like to reiterate that the open letter from 300 economists on Canadian carbon pricing has been up on the Ecofiscal website for over three months. I wonder if any of the Conservatives have taken the opportunity to read it or to heed some of the very pointed requests and recommendations that the economists make. They basically urge people who are naysaying to come up with an alternative if they are making suggestions that carbon pricing...which is a revenue-neutral approach that is very effective at both reducing emissions and supporting energy affordability.

Mr. Chair, what's more concerning than that.... The PBO arrived at committee to reclarify, despite being badgered by Conservative MPs, as we've seen at this committee today, that he has not been told not to disclose the government's carbon pricing analysis. He clarified that in the news and he clarified that in the committee, yet the Conservatives are misrepresenting what he said. What he said was in his second language and he made a mistake.

The Conservatives should read the news. They should accept the fact that the Parliamentary Budget Officer re-clarified that his economic analysis of the impact of the carbon tax was overestimated in his report of 2022 and 2023. The Canadian Climate Institute basically warned more than a year ago that there were flaws. Despite those flaws, the PBO confirmed that 80% of Canadian households get more money back than they pay in carbon pricing.

I'd remind Canadians who are watching the environment committee that on June 14, many Canadians received their Canada carbon rebate, as I did. If you did your taxes on time but not early, you would have received April's payment on the 14th.

Mr. Speaker, like I said, what's more concerning is that the Conservatives continue not just to badger witnesses, but also to completely misrepresent—