Environment Committee on Aug. 26th, 2024

[Chief Gilbert Dominique]

As far as our sector and the Témiscamie herd are concerned, strategically speaking, we see that protecting the forest massifs in the short term is certainly an important avenue to pursue, to allow the strategy that will be implemented to evolve.

There are certainly things that could be implemented and measures that could be applied, but, what's important is to make decisions swiftly, together with the Quebec government, the First Nations, of course, and the federal government. The latter could be a key player.

There's no denying it: the worst thing that's happened over the past 20 years is inaction. If responsible decisions had been made some 20 years ago, caribou survival would likely be less problematic right now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Mr. Martel, you have the floor.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Pelletier or Mr. Samray, I'd like to ask two questions. I'd like to come back to what was said earlier.

It's not scientific, it's mathematical: a drop in allowable cuts means job losses.

Do we have too many protected areas in Quebec? Do our calculation methods differ from those of other countries?

[Louis Pelletier]

Not only are protected areas the responsibility of Canada's Department of the Environment and Climate Change, which consults with other departments, but when the government makes a decision regarding land protection, it is officially communicated to the Chief Forester, and then we integrate it and adjust allowable cuts, if required. The aim is to ensure the sustainability of the resource by avoiding overcutting. So I can't tell you whether there are too many or too few protected areas.

As part of our work, in Quebec, in the recovery plans that have been in effect since 2013, there are nearly 2.8 million hectares of protected areas, which are broken down by region in the documents I've provided. This has been maintained for the 2023‑2028 period.

In addition, south of the northern limit of attributable forests, there are 2.8 million hectares of protected areas for woodland caribou. These are findings and facts that we incorporate into our work when decision makers take measures.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

In your opinion, are we cultivating enough forest to meet the challenges of climate change?

[Louis Pelletier]

You should ask a forest manager. We can always improve our work and reinvest in our forests to improve their productive capacity and resilience to climate change. But it's also a societal choice. How much money do we want to invest in our public forests?

There are other challenges in Quebec, but I'm not a politician. When we dedicate funding for silvicultural strategies, we do so on the basis of our government's societal choices.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you.

[Jean-François Samray]

The point just raised is fundamental. Whether we're talking about the decree or day-to-day practices, money is fundamental. It takes money to maintain roads, to restore production, to pay compensation for forest fires and to do the work. Then there's the federal decree. It's just a glass bell, but it will have effects, and it will take money to eliminate them.

By proposing this decree, the federal government is telling Quebec to do the work in its stead and then print money to pay off the debt.

We need everyone to work together, but we have to understand that this won't happen without repercussions. We have to work together to reduce those, because section 64 of the Species at Risk Act exists, and it's going to cost money.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Samray.

I'm done, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Mr. Lauzon, you have the floor for four minutes.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to the witnesses for joining us.

Chief Dominique, you told us that the elders had sent clear signals several years ago about the disappearance of the caribou.

Right now, on what basis should we take action? Have you documented that information? Do you have any expert reports that back up your urgent call to action to protect the caribou?

[Chief Gilbert Dominique]

Yes, we have gone over the expert reports. We've shared with you some of the studies we've done in partnership with leading scientists and, of course, with our local teams. That information is available to you.

Our elders have seen this first-hand as they travel through their traditional and family territories. As you say, they saw that there were going to be problems and that the development of the area was probably a determining factor in the entire problem.

That information was passed on to us by the territory's users.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

You also forwarded these documents to the Government of Quebec during its consultations, which you took part in. Is that correct?

[Chief Gilbert Dominique]

That's correct. We forwarded all the information collected to the federal government and the Government of Quebec.

In the case of Quebec, we concluded that the government had no intention of making a decision in this regard and that its strategy was to drag things out. That's why we went to court. We felt it made no sense. We cannot stand idly by while the caribou are at risk of extinction. We went to court to argue our case, and I think we won. However, there is still a lot of work to be done.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

We agree that the best way to do this is to work with provinces, territories, indigenous peoples and even municipalities. We heard from witnesses from some municipalities who told us that there were socio-economic effects.

The best solution is to bring everyone together to make good decisions together. Do you agree with that?

[Chief Gilbert Dominique]

Yes, I absolutely agree.

Stop shunning first nations that also have rights to their land and make us part of the decision-making. That way, we would at least give ourselves every opportunity to find measures that might be very useful.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Mr. Pelletier, you tipped us off a bit when you mentioned landlocked areas.

Do you have any recommendations to make to open up these areas by providing compensation for land in order to make the most of forestry opportunities?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Time is running out, unfortunately, so keep your answer short.

[Louis Pelletier]

I am not the one drawing the lines; the federal government is. That's what we've seen on the maps.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

That's a good answer.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Are you able to make recommendations, yes or no?

[Louis Pelletier]

My work is governed by the Quebec government's legislation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Mr. Simard, you have the floor for two minutes.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Chief Dominique, I know that the threat to the caribou directly affects the transmission of your traditional knowledge, which is important to you.

I would like to hear your comments on the transmission of your traditional knowledge and on what the caribou means to you.

[Chief Gilbert Dominique]

As I said earlier, beyond the food issue, the transmission of our knowledge will definitely be affected. In a roundabout way, it will inevitably have an effect on our principles, our values and our language in particular, because some practices will probably disappear. This will result in a huge loss of language skills.

The judge clearly stated that, if the species were to disappear, it would have a direct impact on our aboriginal rights, which include our aboriginal title.