Evidence of meeting #117 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was quebec.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Mayor, Municipalité de Sacré-Coeur
There are all the other aspects I raised earlier. What will our young people and not so young people live from? They went to school and were trained to work in the forestry industry back home. It is all for naught.
Conservative
Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
If Boisaco closes its doors, what will become of Sacré‑Cœur?
Mayor, Municipalité de Sacré-Coeur
Sacré‑Cœur will pretty much become a ghost town.
Conservative
Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
Mr. Gilbert, let us talk about climate change. I believe you sent a letter in which you talked about that, but you did not receive a response, is that correct?
General Manager, Boisaco Inc.
No. So far I have written seven letters to the Prime Minister and to Mr. Guilbeault and we have not received a response. We did not receive acknowledgement of receipt until after the sixth letter.
The issue of climate change that you raise is extremely important. As I was saying earlier, research in western Canada is starting to indicate that climate change is a more significant disturbance factor for the boreal caribou ecotype. We should be putting more and more of our attention on addressing this phenomenon.
It has been shown that species are migrating north at a speed of 45 km per decade. The scientific community is unanimous on this. I am thinking about something Claude Villeneuve, researcher emeritus at Université du Québec à Chicoutimi, said just last year. Unfortunately, he is no longer with us, but there are recordings of him on this topic. He said that moose and deer were migrating north and that their predator, the wolf, was migrating with them. According to him, that is an inevitable consequence of climate change. The moose populations have increased almost fivefold in Saguenay—Lac‑Saint‑Jean and in sectors near Pipmuacan over the past 20 years.
All of this indicates that there is a movement we will not be able to stop easily. Claude Villeneuve himself said that we will not really be able to have any slowing impact on climate change for 300 years. Those are not my words, they're his. In the short term, there is no use in thinking that a habitat protection measure that destroys all forest management activity around a region is going to help the caribou. That is magical thinking. It is impossible.
Conservative
Conservative
Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
I was going to talk about predation. We hear that wolves are under constant threat. I read an article about what happened in western Canada and—
General Manager, Boisaco Inc.
Indeed, an experiment was done in western Canada and it is important to talk about it. People there worked on the topic of wolves and, in two years, they helped increase the population of the boreal caribou ecotype by 52% without destroying the forestry economy or forest management.
Conservative
Liberal
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to thank the witnesses, including the mayor of Sacré‑Coeur, for being here today.
I represent a rural region where the forestry is very important. One of the largest municipalities in my riding is suffering the impact of the Fortress plant closure, which you may be aware of. I attended round table discussions on the matter. Since I come from this community, I am familiar with forestry-related issues. The pressure felt in the forestry industry is not new.
As you know, mayor, when you are elected at the municipal level, you are close to your constituents. People rely on industry to earn a living. Some villages have been negatively impacted by the industry. I am thinking of Abitibi‑Témiscamingue, for example, where the locals came together, bought back the plant and managed to restart it, under certain conditions.
Since 1989, I have been getting the sense that the climate situation is also putting some pressure on the forestry. This can also cause certain illnesses. You mentioned it and it was very interesting. We also have to deal with forest fires.
Today we have another challenge to add to all the layers of challenges we have faced so far. No matter how much we champion the forestry, we are confronted with this industry's impact on the caribou, which is endangered.
As a government member, I am proud to represent the forestry and rural life and to defend the interests of small communities. I was a municipal councillor and local citizens and local services are important to me.
As a government, we need to make decisions by holding consultations and relying on professionals. We are in the middle of that process and you are part of it. We are here for that. If we did not want to hear from you, you would not be here today. We are here to listen to you. It is your turn to speak.
Earlier, you talked to us about a document proving that the caribou is not threatened on your territory. I do not have that document, but I would be happy to have it and read it. I would like you to officially table it with the committee so that members can read it. This would help advance the consultation, which continues until September 15.
As you know, Ms. Boulianne, the concept of consultation is important in small municipalities, but it is just as important at the federal level.
The model that was chosen for holding consultations is an independent commission that gathers expert recommendations. Boisaco had the time to participate in this consultation. As for you, Ms. Boulianne, you did not have time to take part, but you are relying on Boisaco for that. My question is therefore for the people at Boisaco.
As a government we need to be responsible. In almost every file, the opposition parties call on the government to hold an independent commission. In this case, we held an independent commission. That being said, do you think that this commission on caribou is independent? If not, how could we do better next time?
President, Boisaco Inc.
Mr. Lauzon, are you talking about the current commission?
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
Yes, I am talking about the consultation that is being held until September 15.
President, Boisaco Inc.
Okay.
Let us be clear, the current commission is being held because the system was under pressure. It is rather unfortunate to want to move forward under the threat of an order. Again, during the first technical meeting we were invited to, we were told that this order was made with a view to striking a balance between protecting the animal and the repercussions to the people in the community. That is exactly what we were told. Then—
August 26th, 2024 / 12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
I am sorry to interrupt you, Mr. St‑Gelais, but the consultations were extended until September 15 and we are continuing to consult people because we are acting in good faith. We are listening to you. We are there.
President, Boisaco Inc.
Mr. Lauzon, we were told that the order that was presented could not really be amended. What difference does a consultation make in that case? The impact of this order on the locals was absolutely not taken into account. At the end of the day, we are being told that the order will not change much, but we are still being asked to contribute to the consultation. It makes no sense. You can appreciate that we are moving in the wrong direction, unfortunately.
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
You are therefore telling this committee that based on the information you had, I am not sure if you received it orally or in writing, this is a botched consultation, that there is no point in it, because it is a foregone conclusion. You may already know the direction of the final result, but I am a federally elected member and I am not even aware of the result of the consultations. I still have faith in the consultants and the experts. I do not know the result yet but you do, according to what you are saying.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you, Mr. Lauzon.
I will now give the floor to Mr. Simard for two and half minutes.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would ask the witnesses to provide very short answers.
Ms. Boulianne, our goal today is to have an influence on the minister. In one minute, if you had a message to send to Mr. Guilbeault, what would it be?
Mayor, Municipalité de Sacré-Coeur
Earlier, in response to the question on the consultation, there was confusion on my part. Yes, we are actively participating in this consultation. All of my constituents have received a personal message inviting them to participate in this consultation.
The message I want to convey today is that if the order is applied as currently worded, I wonder where our municipality will go. I think it will no longer need a mayor to manage the municipality, since there will no longer be anything to manage.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
That is very clear. Thank you.
Mr. St‑Gelais, you can elaborate on your response to Mr. Lauzon, if you like.
However, I would like to talk to you about the disturbance rates. There is talk of a 35% disturbance rate. If we consider the forest fires and the spruce budworm, the disturbance rate in the sector of interest would already be at least 58%.
Could you clarify that?
President, Boisaco Inc.
I will ask Mr. Gilbert to provide more details on that.
General Manager, Boisaco Inc.
I would like to correct the record: The disturbance rate in the Pipmuacan sector is currently 80%. That is based on calculations made using federal methodology.
For our part, we have taken into account the objectives of the order and we recalculated with our experts to determine what would happen if the order were applied. At the end of the day, if we dismantled every avenue we could and allowed the activities permitted under the order, we come up with a disturbance rate of 49%, while the goal of the order is 35%. If the disturbance rate is 35%, there is a 60% chance that the population will hold. However, if the disturbance rate is 49%, that is no longer the case.
Based on how the order was made, it takes only the habitat into account. In my opinion, this demonstrates a lack of knowledge of the territory where the forest is managed. This is an exercise in futility. It is a road to nowhere. We are going to destroy economies, villages and lives for nothing.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
Mr. St‑Gelais, you thought that you did not have much influence over the government's decision during the consultation. That is the gist of the conversation you had with Mr. Lauzon.
I would like you to elaborate on that.