Environment Committee on Aug. 30th, 2024

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

We also heard that the forestry sector could do more with less wood by reinventing itself in tertiary processing. That comes up frequently.

Is it really possible to do that if there's less primary processing?

[Yanick Baillargeon]

It would be extremely difficult to have secondary and tertiary processing, improvement and innovation without access to primary processing. Since it's a hugely important link across the entire chain, that's virtually impossible.

However, certain things could be implemented on the silviculture and forest productivity side to provide us with access to more wood, but over a smaller area.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Baillargeon, you're also a warden. I'd like to hear your views in that capacity. Do you think the forest regions have done enough to diversify their economies? What are the results?

[Yanick Baillargeon]

As I was explaining, the forest region we represent has 65 municipalities, 34 of which are forest single industries or directly dependent on this sector. And let's not forget all the recreational and tourism activities that are generated in these regions. Access to these activities will be blocked. If there is no longer a forest industry, it will be extremely difficult to access the territory and offer recreational tourism activities.

We also have to think about access to leisure activities. There are many vacation leases. Some city dwellers have what we call forest cottages, but those will no longer be accessible, since most of the time the roads are maintained by the forest industry. The RCMs won't have the power or the means to maintain the roads and ensure their continued safety.

That is also important for the protection of our forest. It's essential that we have access to the forest itself and that these roads continue to be built and maintained by the forest industry.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Deschênes, you said earlier that the government had a duty and a responsibility to take everything into account. I was interested by what you said, which leads me to my next question.

In your view, has everything been taken into consideration, at this point in time?

[Bastien Deschênes]

Unfortunately not, and in fact that's what we've been saying for several weeks, if not months. Since the decree was announced in June, we feel that a great deal of emphasis has been placed on protecting the caribou, and we agree with that, of course, but the socio-economic aspect has been somewhat neglected in all of this, unfortunately.

It's interesting to see that, since this committee began studying the issue on Monday, we've started to feel a balance between the various aspects of sustainable development. Society, the economy and the environment are all part of sustainable development, and it all has to be balanced.

I'll come back to what Martin Dufour told us earlier: I think people in Quebec and Canada are bright enough to sit down around a table and find concrete, intelligent solutions to protect both jobs and the caribou. Those results won't be achieved by applying a decree like the one that was announced. That's just not possible. We have to change course and start over again.

We hear all sorts of things about the Quebec government. People say it hasn't done anything for several years, but that's not true. It has implemented plans and done a great deal. I think it's simply that the information isn't found in quite the same place.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you.

I don't think I have much time left, do I, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You have 30 seconds left. That's enough for one last comment.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

I won't be able to do much with that.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I understand, then, that we will now move on to Ms. Fortier.

Welcome to the committee, Ms. Fortier. You have six minutes.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you very much for welcoming me to the committee today.

I found the witnesses' opening remarks most interesting. I thank them.

Mr. Baillargeon, obviously, I know you're an advocate of the economy, as I think we all are. That said, do you see the urgency of protecting the caribou and the environment?

[Yanick Baillargeon]

In fact, we don't necessarily advocate the economy. At Alliance forêt boréale, we're firmly focused on the sustainable development of this sector. So, all angles are respected.

As for the caribou, there was often talk of a decline. However, the documents published by the Quebec government would have to include successive inventories, over a period of three to five years at most, to conclude that there truly is a decline. The Quebec government website doesn't currently provide all that data. The data are too far apart in time and have not been collected on the same territories successively. The reference inventories go back to 2020. I rather think that we'll be able to assess the situation in the future.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Do you find it reasonable that the Quebec government still has no plan for the caribou in your region, when they are in decline there, according to the figures we see in Quebec and Canada?

[Yanick Baillargeon]

It is indeed inconceivable that the Quebec government would not sit down with the federal government to resolve that situation.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Mr. Deschênes, I'd like to ask you the same question, since you probably have an opinion on this too.

Do you think the Quebec government should have a plan?

[Bastien Deschênes]

What I'm arguing right now is that the Quebec government does have a plan. Action has been taken since 2005. There are areas to which we don't currently have access because of the presence of boreal caribou.

It seems that the federal and provincial governments haven't really spoken to each other. They haven't taken the time to sit down and talk about what's been done since 2005, what's going well, what's not going so well and what still needs to be done. Opportunities for dialogue have been missed.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I have a question for Chief Dufour.

I heard you talk about balance in your presentation and I have the same approach. It's important to protect caribou, biodiversity and jobs at the same time.

Could you explain a little more about how we could ensure this balance and keep the forest healthy so that we can use it to generate economic opportunities in the forestry sector?

[Chief Martin Dufour]

The Essipit Nitassinan is one of the areas most affected by logging in Quebec. Logging began in the 1800s. In some places, this is the third or fourth time logging has been done. So there's a lot of work to be done to restore a habitat that will allow the reintroduction of a large caribou herd. We do have caribou. On our Nitassinan, there are about three mature forest massifs left.

If we want to find solutions, Quebec absolutely must be involved, because it owns important data. To get a true picture of the territory, we also need the federal government on board, as well as the industry and, of course, first nations. I'm hammering home the same message: It's absolutely essential that the Quebec government participate in the process, and I respectfully invite it to do so.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Baillargeon, I'd like to give you the chance to continue your presentation. You had other solutions to propose to ensure the protection of caribou while ensuring the economic vitality of the region. I now invite you to continue.

[Yanick Baillargeon]

In fact, the solution lies with everyone. The governments of Canada and Quebec, the communities, the forest industry and the indigenous communities have to sit down together to find solutions, instead of fighting each other. That's the way ahead. There's room for everyone. We believe in it, we know we can protect the species and the economy, but if no one is sitting at the same table, it will be impossible. That's the message we need to convey this morning.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you, Ms. Fortier.

We'll move on to the Bloc Québécois. If I'm not mistaken, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe will ask the first questions.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank all the witnesses who are here today, in the context of this important study.

Mr. Baillargeon, you said that this emergency decree will have an unprecedented catastrophic impact on forest communities in your territory.

We've heard a lot about the example of the municipality of Sacré-Coeur. In fact, the mayor came to testify here at the committee.

Could you give us other examples of forest communities, other than Sacré-Coeur, that will be affected by Mr. Guilbeault's decree?

[Yanick Baillargeon]

In fact, just about every sector of the Saguenay—Lac‑Saint‑Jean, La Haute-Côte-Nord and Manicouagan RCMs will be affected by this decree.

As we explained at the outset, you can't remove one link in the chain and expect the whole thing to keep working. This will have repercussions for all our communities. I mentioned that our territory is made up of 65 municipalities, 34 of which are virtually single industry and forestry. As soon as one of them falls, there will be a second, then a third. There will be a domino effect. It's going to collapse.

We mustn't forget one thing: 74% of the boreal caribou's range is above the northern limit. There's no logging in that area. We're talking about 74% of its range. However, the caribou is said to be in decline. Is it really the forestry industry itself that's putting it at risk? I think that's the question that should be asked.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Baillargeon, I'd like you to explain to people what's going on in the forest industry, because they're not necessarily aware of it.

You talked about links. Not everyone knows, for example, that chips or wood residues from one sawmill will be used by another wood industry. Could you explain this to the committee?