Evidence of meeting #120 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was forest.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Liberal
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for being here, Mr. Jetté.
I'd also like to thank Ms. Dufour, Mr. Dufour and Mr. Dionne.
You know that I understand all of you. I'm a girl from the Côte-Nord.
I'd like to start with a personal comment. Ms. Dufour really touched me when she spoke of leaving her home and region. What she's going through now, I experienced it at another time and in a slightly different way. The father of my two oldest children worked at Sacopan. Then he worked for Kruger in Longue-Rive, on the Haute‑Côte‑Nord. When the sawmill closed, we moved to Baie-Comeau, with all the repercussions that implies for our lives, our families, and even the community.
Yes, I'm talking about myself, because I've experienced it to my core, but I'm also talking about the communities. We can't say that the municipality of Longue-Rive is back to what it was in the past. Many of our communities are single-industry towns, and I'm hearing some naive solutions here, which I don't like. You can't go 400 kilometres from home to work on wind turbines when you've always lived in a forestry community on the banks of the Saguenay. Port‑Cartier is not Sacré‑Coeur.
I must tell you that, on a number of occasions, I have asked Mr. Guilbeault to go and visit that community. That was long before Ms. Boulianne became mayor. Obviously, for me, a number of things are at stake, as I'm sure they are for you, the entire Boisaco team.
First, there is the issue of social peace, in addition to all the talk about our families. There is a lot of talk about first nations, but at the same time, I wonder if we're talking to all first nations. How often do we talk about their knowledge? I've been out in the field and spoken with their members. According to them, the caribou is moving east. We also have to look at the reality of first nations. The caribou aren't necessarily in the Pipmuacan reservoir area. They won't stay there either. Anthropogenic activity isn't limited to the forest industry; it includes recreation. In short, there are all kinds.
I, too, was at a loss yesterday when I read an article that said that, as far as Ontario is concerned, the federal government had an agreement with the Ford government for the industry. Funny, it sounds like a double standard. The federal government doesn't make any effort, unlike the Government of Quebec. You saw Blanchette Vézina, Champagne Jourdain, Ms. Laforest and Mr. Montigny. They went to see you, as did my team, to say that Quebec is there and that Quebec will help you. In fact, what the federal government is doing with Ontario is that it isn't asking for the same thing. That amazes me. I think the government needs to take that into account.
What also concerns me—and I'd like to hear your comments on this—is the extent to which Sacré‑Coeur is a model. We're told that all trees, all species, all parts of the tree must be used, but Boisaco is already doing it, as Mr. Dufour said at the beginning of the meeting. Companies like Sacopan, Ripco and Granulco already use all the wood. There's nothing left that's not being used. What's more, it's one of Boisaco's wishes—I think it was Mr. Dionne who mentioned it—to respect the environment and be a sustainable business.
I've been hearing prejudices here for a while. I'm hearing that your business isn't sustainable. I'm hearing that more needs to be done. However, you're already doing more than most businesses. What the government is going to do with this order is to say that there is a great model of sustainability for all businesses in Quebec, and even in Canada, but that it is still going to shut down the village. This is unacceptable. Thank you for being here to challenge this order. We want quick solutions. There's a lot of talk about caribou and quick fixes. I'd like to hear your comments on this too.
Ms. Dufour, you talked about anxiety. We're wondering what this order will do, but it's already having an impact. It's already destroying the industry back home and destroying villages. We'll certainly be with you. Sacré‑Coeur won't be closing, but I would like to hear your comments on everything I've said, and I'd like you to round out my remarks. People need to hear realities other than just some of the prejudices and stereotypes we hear here in committee.
Ms. Dufour, Mr. Dufour and Mr. Dionne, take the rest of the time.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
There's a minute and a half left. If you can share that minute and a half, we'll stay on time.
Worker, Harvesting Team, Boisaco Inc.
I'll give a comprehensive answer. What Boisaco cares about is the development of all its plants. Over the years, it's done nothing but that. We're now able to use 100% of the tree and derive value from all parts of it, so there's no waste. Not all plants can do that, and it's important to take that into account. There's no doubt that this announcement is causing a lot of anxiety for families right now, so it's important that it not take a year or two to find out what's going to happen.
I don't know if Mr. Dufour wants to add anything.
Stationary Engineer, Boisaco Inc.
We get the impression that they want to punish a company that is a model for the industry. Maybe they don't want to punish us, but we're the ones who are suffering, in any case. It's a shame.
Stationary Engineer, Boisaco Inc.
Yes, indeed. We, the local communities, feel that we are being held hostage by this order. We understand the desire to protect the species, but to come up with such a draconian protection plan—
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank all the witnesses for being here with us, even if it is virtually, for this study, which is important to many people.
Ladies and gentlemen, I'm also very touched to hear you talk about your stories and realities, which I know little about, unlike others, but about which I've been learning a lot over the past several weeks. These are extremely sensitive issues, and I fully understand that they're causing a great deal of concern and anxiety. We're going to try to find the right way to do what we need to do collectively, both for the protection of the environment and biodiversity, and for regional development and job retention.
Mr. Jetté, you said two important words: “fair transition”. Everyone is including a bit of what they want in that notion. I'm very proud of the work we've done, particularly with Charlie Angus, on a sustainable jobs bill, so that workers and unions have a place at the table.
You started talking about what the beginning of a fair transition and change in the industry might look like, in three points. The first thing you talked about was mitigation. I'd like to understand a little more about what you're talking about. Then I'll ask you some other questions.
Forest Engineer, As an Individual
The industrial transition is under way, but we're not sure it's going to be fair. It's therefore important to consider the fate of the categories of workers who may be affected by changes. For a certain category of workers—and I'm thinking of forestry workers in particular—there is a package of options enabling them to continue working in their field. I was talking about silvicultural programs, for example, where these people could be used. When I gave the example of wind power, I was thinking of the megapark project in both regions, where there will be road construction to be done. It's things like that.
It should be noted that the other transition we seem to be witnessing, in other words, the consolidation of sawmills, will make volumes available. This is where the decision—to return to the word “fair”—becomes not just a business issue but a social one, too. With regard to the changes we're seeing, how can we help Sacré‑Coeur? How can we help Saint-Ludger-de-Milot, a village in Lac-Saint-Jean where a plant has announced its closure?
It's not a matter of drawing up a transition plan and saying that we're going to focus on bioproducts in Canada. No. You have to know what's being done in Saint-Ludger-de-Milot, based on the wood you can find, which isn't necessarily fir or spruce, which is used to make two-by-fours. We have to find something else. We have money, technology and expertise. We have chemists who know these things. Can we put all that together and do everything we can to help villages like Saint-Ludger-de-Milot when we see that there's a social problem? That's a fair transition plan. It's a reasoned transition based on the interests of the communities, the workers.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
I was surprised by the figure you quoted from a Quebec government report, namely that 11 million cubic metres of wood a year are underutilized or unused. You talked a lot about deriving value in this transition. Do you have any suggestions for the committee regarding this underutilized or unused wood?
Forest Engineer, As an Individual
Right now, I see four sources. I gave you the example of hardwood that, for all kinds of reasons, don't have the quality of wood required to meet the current structure. However, that doesn't mean that, with biochemistry, applications couldn't be found for them in bioproducts. I'm not an expert in this area, but I know there are cases where this is starting to happen. You have to do it by all means.
The second source is burnt wood; about 920,000 hectares of forest have been burnt. For the lumber industry, the ability to get that wood is very low, and after a year, the wood is no longer good. As a result, there are about 900,000 hectares of wood left. What can be done with it? With climate change, there will be more burnt wood. Wouldn't that be something to tap into?
Then, on the Côte‑Nord, the industry is less interested in fir, which is dismissed because it doesn't meet the sawmill's needs. So what other needs can it meet?
The final source is construction waste, which currently ends up in landfills. Because it's made of wood, it emits methane, which is the worst way to produce greenhouse gases. In that case, can we think about creating a circular economy by recovering this material for other things, such as bioproducts and energy?
I'll leave it to the experts to decide, but, as you can see, there are possible solutions. We have to roll up our sleeves and help each other. We need to support the message we're hearing and, in my opinion, we have to give a message of hope. We have the technology to make that transition.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you.
We'll now begin the second and final round.
Mr. Martel.
Conservative
Liberal
Conservative
Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
Okay. After this round, there's no more. That's what I wanted to know. That's where the confusion was. Thank you, Mr. Chair, that clarifies it.
Ms. Dufour, what I'm hearing is that, as a result of this order, the village of Sacré‑Coeur may disappear. Did you have the minister's visit?
Coordinator, Sales and Transport, Boisaco Inc.
I imagine you're talking to me about Minister Guilbeault.
Conservative
Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
Yes, I'm referring to Minister Guilbeault, it's his order.
Coordinator, Sales and Transport, Boisaco Inc.
No, we didn't have a visit from Mr. Guilbeault.
Conservative
Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
Would you have liked to hear anything from him? As a human being, do you find the disappearance of the community quite tragic? How do you see this situation? Would you like him to at least see you and talk to you a bit?
