Evidence of meeting #131 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Natalie Jeanneault

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

The reality is that the residents of Jasper—those who have lost their homes; the family members of those who are putting up people who have lost their homes, and the friends and the neighbours who are doing just the same; and those who have lost their businesses and their entire livelihoods and are probably currently battling with insurance companies over all of this, along with dealing with potential legal and accounting fees—are waiting for answers. They're waiting for some sort of solace that we can do better in the future, and I think they believe that we must do better in the future.

Obviously, in any tourist community like Jasper, local businesses are the lifeblood of the economy. Where I'm from is much closer to Riding Mountain National Park, where I was just a few weeks ago, and that is the most important part of the community. The vitality is sustained by all of the jobs created locally and those they bring in, both for jobs and for research. That's what makes our national park communities so important.

In my view, Jasper's residents need leadership right now. They need to understand what happened and how it will be prevented from ever happening again.

I'll be blunt. From talking to my colleague from the region in particular and some people on the ground there, I know there are families who still don't know where they're going to live and who don't have direct, immediate friends and family they can post up with for what is going to be a lengthy period of time.

Small business owners there are at a loss. They're stuck. They have no revenue. They don't know what to do. They don't know whether they have the confidence to rebuild in the community. As I said earlier, they're battling with insurance companies.

I don't want to call it insurmountable, because I believe in Canadian entrepreneurship. I believe in Canadian people. It can be overcome, but it is extremely difficult. We not only need to recognize the moments of that fire overtaking that community but we also need to respect the aftermath of it and the impacts it has had on all of the individuals I've just mentioned, and even on many of the tourists who want to go there and have booked trips and had things changed.

The people of Jasper are trying, and they will get back on their own two feet, but we need to do everything we can to support them, particularly after acknowledging that we didn't do everything we could to prevent this catastrophic fire from happening.

We are told that there is a plan in place from the current government and that the federal government is working with provincial and municipal governments and indigenous partners, which is excellent news. I think it's fantastic to hear that those efforts are being undertaken, but like any other government program or project, I'm always a bit skeptical of the timeliness of the execution of that plan. We need to see that plan in action.

In my view—and this is the reason for my subamendment to this motion—we need to hear directly from the minister who has now been appointed by the current Prime Minister as part of that effort to understand what happened and, more importantly, how we can rebuild that community and protect them from having this ever happen again. We need to hear directly from the minister on how we are going to see a rebuild happen.

I'm not looking for vague announcements, news releases or even backgrounders or written statements. I want to see and hear directly from the minister, and I think all Jasperites do. I think members of this committee, broadly speaking, all reasonably want to hear what concrete steps are going to be taken and what that is going to mean, in terms of real timelines, to the people who are dealing with this devastation in real time.

The people of Jasper simply need to know how the federal government is going to support them and how this recovery process will be coordinated, and that we as parliamentarians know where the pressure points are to apply the necessary pressure to ensure that it happens swiftly and that this isn't some forgotten disaster where the people who were directly impacted will just be lost to time. Mr. Chair, the fact of the matter is that time is critical on this particular topic.

We have heard, and I do appreciate the comments from the Prime Minister and the government more broadly that this recovery for Jasper is a priority, but, as we all know, actions speak louder than words. Words mean very little to people who are dealing with such distress—financial, family and otherwise.

We are hearing that Minister Boissonnault, if December 4 is his earliest appearance opportunity, is too busy to attend this committee. Listen, if that means that Minister Boissonnault is spending all of his time on the ground, talking to small business owners, talking to councillors for the community and talking to individuals who have been left homeless and, frankly, anybody else who has been impacted by this devastation, then I might be willing to accept that. Thus far, I have not seen any evidence that that is the case. To me, it's not acceptable.

In my view as a parliamentarian, as somebody who has done, among my colleagues, a thorough, important, valuable and timely investigation into this matter, I think his appearance is essential, to put it mildly. It's not just for the people of Jasper but for anybody who's seen this issue online or on TV, or heard it on radio or anywhere else and thinks that this is important. These are my fellow Canadians facing real, substantive challenges, and I want to see the outcome of it be real, be quick and be what we would expect of a government that was negligent in its responsibilities.

My understanding is that the minister has been given the title of ministerial lead for Jasper. Obviously titles are important, but the question must be this: Is that minister leading, or is this a show? Is he merely sitting idly by? I would love to hear it from him, whichever Randy wants to show up. His role should be about coordinating support, ensuring that the resources are flowing into the community and, most importantly, ensuring that Jasper's recovery is moving forward at the pace that the people on the ground deserve.

As far as I can tell—and I'll look to my colleague from the region to perhaps make comments after—the people of Jasper are very much still waiting for answers on many critical fronts. What is the plan to support the local businesses that are struggling to get back on their feet with the loss of tourism or the physical devastation of a fire to their particular business or something related to their business? How much financial assistance is making its way into the hands of those who need it most?

Broadly speaking, what is the federal government doing to ensure that Jasper remains on the front burner, that it isn't pushed to the back burner, that there's reconstruction and rebuilding of this notable, glorious national park? I have had the pleasure of visiting it, and I think many Canadians have. It is an iconic national park. Is it staying on the front burner, and will it forever? I think these are very reasonable questions.

Perhaps more importantly, as we heard through our investigation, with the fire coming from the south, there are still many, many dead pines standing within the national park. We are facing potential devastation with the wrong direction of winds in the rest of the community, the other two-thirds that was left standing. What is Parks Canada in particular doing to address these very real concerns?

In my view, the only way to address these issues, given that we've had a minister appointed responsible for the lead of Jasper, is to hear from that minister himself, so I think it's entirely reasonable that we ask this committee to convene to bring forward these very questions and to find out what he has discovered, recognizing that he is a relatively new minister to the file—not that he may have never been to Jasper, but this is a new role.

We're weeks on now, and if the importance of this issue is as paramount as the government has claimed it to be, then the direction to one of the Randys is to go and understand the issues that are facing this community. I think it's entirely reasonable that at this point we get an update that Minister Boissonnault is relatively up to speed in terms of the impact that he has witnessed in his travels and engagements with the community.

Second, where are we with the plan to help Jasper rebuild? I think we need to understand the specific details of those recovery efforts. We might not be the experts around this table, but we've certainly heard a lot about the challenges that led up to this.

It's important to provide a public platform to enable Minister Boissonnault to provide the specifics, not just vague promises. In my view—and I think I can say this for my colleagues, at least—this is not the time for delay. The people of Jasper, particularly those who have been directly impacted, need and deserve answers, and they need and deserve them now.

Now, in my view, Minister Boissonnault's appointment here was an important step. I think it's a very real recognition of the devastation that has been caused to that particular community of Jasper. However, it is only a step. If we are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves, there are most definitely numerous steps needed, and they need to be taken in collaboration with locals. That's his job. I would love to hear directly from him how that is going. I think it is entirely reasonable.

This is not a matter of politics. It's a matter of lives and livelihoods—the ones that were lost through this devastation—and the opportunity to rebound into the future. It's a matter of understanding where Parks Canada went wrong and adjusting for the future.

I couldn't imagine being put in the position of experiencing a fire, personally. My family has been in the position of experiencing floods. I don't want to compare the two, but fires are simply devastating. Everything's lost, from your family photo albums—even if you had them on a USB or an old laptop—to the storage unit of your business and any aspect of your life we could all dream up and imagine. If what we owned, loved and lived disappeared, it would be devastating. To me, it's one of the most devastating possible natural disasters. That's not to minimize the impact of floods, but there's something more to it.

In my view, we shouldn't have to wait until December 4 for Minister Boissonnault to show up. Again, Mr. Chair, I would be happy to hear that on Mondays and Wednesdays, when this committee meets, Minister Boissonnault is on the ground in Jasper just talking to people. Perhaps his office could provide a response to clarify that, in fact, on Mondays and Wednesdays he is in Jasper.

Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I would like to inquire of Mr. Leslie whether he intends to filibuster the whole meeting or—

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

That's not a point of order.

Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON

Is it relevant to his motion?

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

He's speaking about Jasper.

Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Personally, I....

Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON

I'm just wondering. They're capable of it. [Inaudible—Editor]

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

This was the job that Minister Boissonnault was appointed to do. I will give credence and credit that he is new at it, but I don't think it's unreasonable, given the time crunch and necessity, for him to come and offer some sort of an update.

We know that governments are often slow to respond in general, and in particular to natural disasters. I've seen this repeated over numerous circumstances over the years in my own home municipality and in many municipalities that I represent. I think we probably all have, in some way, shape or form, seen delays on a DFA claim from the province going to the feds and been waiting for the DFAA claim to come through, with debates on whether or not the receipts for the projects and the work undertaken were eligible or not eligible and disputes between various levels of government.

The reality is that at the end of the day, there is only one taxpayer. Whether they're paying provincially or municipally or to this big behemoth of a federal government, there is only one taxpayer, and I think we owe it to them to be as nimble, responsive and responsible as possible with those dollars.

That's why I think it's entirely reasonable to not wait a month to have Minister Boissonnault here as soon as possible, with the allowance that if he is in Jasper, I will accept that he can't be here that day. We can't just keep pushing back his appearance because we're worried about political optics, because the individuals in Parks Canada once debated on whether or not they should do prescribed burns. I do believe, in a fully non-partisan sense, that every member of this committee and, I think, of the government, does want to see this recovery move forward in as expedited a manner as possible.

I can only imagine that if your business had burned and remained closed, if you remained displaced with your family and if you were watching delays in Ottawa, you would be frustrated. I don't think it's reasonable to blame any of those individuals impacted for being frustrated. I think it's reasonable to say that the people of Jasper are counting on us, as opposition, to hold the government accountable and to demand answers, but, more importantly, to collectively make sure that the community is not forgotten, is not left behind.

I'd like to call on all members of this committee, regardless of party, to vote in favour of this amendment to make sure that we don't just push back all of the other work we've been doing in this committee to try to make this issue go away. I think it is very reasonable that the minister appear in mid-November once we are back from our Remembrance Day ceremonies that we are all going to travel to across the country, rightly and, hopefully, properly honouring all of those who have served in our armed forces.

I'd like to think that we could do it before the date that has been proposed. We still, as far as I can tell, Mr. Chair, have not seen a confirmed statement of attendance, and I always get worried when they say they are going to attend but, as we get closer, something comes up. I think that's a tactic that is regularly undertaken by those who want to avoid any accountability, and in my view it is time for the minister to appear.

Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

I'm sorry, Mr. Leslie. I just want to interrupt to provide some clarification. We did get something in writing, saying that he was available on the 4th.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

For sure?

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

That's what it says in black and white, yes.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Let's lock it in.

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

It is, unless the committee changes its mind and doesn't want to see him on the 4th. I'm hoping that doesn't happen.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Well, with the support of all members today, we could make it happen earlier, but separately...and I don't want to say “more importantly”, but perhaps it is—

Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON

On a point of order, Chair, I presume you have a speaking list.

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

I do.

Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON

Could I ask who's on the speaking list?

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Yes. It's Mr. Mazier, Madame Chatel, Ms. Collins, you, Mr. Soroka and Mr. Deltell.

Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON

Okay. That's good.

Mr. Chair, it's a question about procedure. If Mr. Leslie filibusters, would it delay the meeting with Minister Boissonnault?

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Not necessarily.

Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON

If it went on for a couple of meetings, would it potentially delay that?

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

If it went on for three weeks, it would, yes.

Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON

I'm just comparing it to the House. They're filibustering in the House as well and at the—

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

This is not a point of order.

Excuse me. I have to stop this this exchange right now.