Environment Committee on Nov. 27th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Your time is running out.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

That's fine. I find the impugning of her motivations regarding this bill appalling. I don't know why the Liberals are finding it so hard to believe that my NDP colleague is actually just trying to improve this legislation.

What this legislation appears to be is a plan to make a plan, which I can only see leading into a whole bunch more government bureaucracy. Since taking power in 2016, the number of executives at ECCC has risen by 53%, which I find absolutely insane.

Minister, to implement this legislation, will you commit to identifying internal savings rather than new money to make this legislation enacted?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You have 30 seconds, Minister.

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I'm not sure the question is relevant to the bill. However, as I explained earlier, this framework legislation is important because it will subject our government and subsequent governments to a series of actions that we will have to take in terms of transparency on the nature—

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Can I just ask a simple question?

What do you expect the cost to be for enabling this framework?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I think it's important to have targets and action plans to achieve those targets. That's how we'll get there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. Leslie, your time is up.

Mr. van Koeverden, you have the floor for a minute and a half.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I've been quite eager to ask a question of the minister on biodiversity. I thank all members who supported the prestudy for Bill C-73 to come to this committee over the last couple of weeks.

Minister, thank you for coming here to talk about how important Bill C-73 is to protect biodiversity.

As we've discussed, the corridors funding is very important to me personally. I live in a part of the Niagara Escarpment that is one of the most biodiverse areas in all of North America. That is surprising for people who live there because it doesn't seem like a rainforest or anything like that, but it's beautiful.

Today, actually, on behalf of you, I should offer that I was able to call a gentleman by the name of David Flood, who is an indigenous man in northern Ontario. He's part of the Indigenous Leadership Initiative, which is something I have tremendous respect for. They are fabulous and a great solution for climate change and for the biodiversity loss that our environment is facing.

I was able to call him and congratulate him on over $1.3 million in funding for the Wahkohtowin organization. It's like a B Corp. He was describing it to me on the phone. They do amazing work. Across the traditional territories of the Brunswick House First Nation, Chapleau Cree First Nation and Missanabie Cree First Nation, they are going to support the Wahkohtowin height of land ecological corridor project. It's in partnership with various first nations.

David Flood is an amazing leader and somebody who cares deeply about biodiversity and cultural preservation. He's working with Parks Canada.

Could you elaborate on why this—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Your time is up, unfortunately.

Madame Pauzé.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

The federal government needs to protect the high seas and oceans. The Liberal government has authorized drilling in and around protected areas. As was mentioned earlier, drilling is allowed in protected areas because natural resources fall under Quebec jurisdiction.

Minister, are you telling me that this country is ungovernable?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Not at all. However, we have different roles and responsibilities. That is the case in all countries. Different levels of government have different roles and responsibilities. Canada is no exception. Go and see around the world, in the European Union, in the United States of America, or in Germany with its Länder. We're not a global outlier or anomaly. That's the way it is everywhere on the planet.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

There is protection, but drilling is being done.

Do I still have a bit of time, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You have a few seconds left.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

There are protected areas, but the government accepts drilling in protected areas. Therefore—

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

That's not true. In protected areas, there are commercial tourism-type activities, such as fishing. In protected areas, there are no heavy industrial activities like mining or oil development.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

What about offshore drilling? What about licences that have been issued for exploratory drilling in areas recognized by the government as protected?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Your time is up, Ms. Pauzé.

Ms. Collins, you have the floor.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Accountability requires independent oversight and advice. When we were first looking at the climate accountability act, the government wouldn't make a commitment not to have industry stakeholders on the net-zero advisory body. Eventually, after some pushing, your government made that commitment. I'm hoping that you'll make the same commitment with this biodiversity accountability act.

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

As I said earlier, I'm very open to improvements to the bill as tabled. I think the purpose of this committee is to debate potential amendments. I'm very open to that.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

I hear that you're open, but I guess I want a commitment from you. What safeguards will be put in place to ensure that the committee's recommendations are going to be based on scientific evidence and expert analysis rather than industry pressures?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Other than our commitment that the advice from the committee will be based on scientific knowledge, indigenous knowledge and best scientific advice—

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Can you assure this committee that corporate polluters, which would oftentimes rather prioritize their profit that may destroy nature, won't have a seat at this advisory committee?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I'm very open, again, to recommendations as to what the composition of the committee—

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

So that is a no, you will not make that commitment today.

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

That's not what I'm saying.