Environment Committee on Nov. 27th, 2024

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Quite the opposite. It is the most detailed plan I've seen anywhere in the world. Granted, I may not have seen every single plan, but I challenge you to compare it with the plans of most G7 countries similar to Canada. You'll see that it is the most detailed.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

All right.

I want to get back to the oil and gas sector. You want the industry to reduce emissions by 35% by 2030, but below 2019 emissions. The government's entire plan, however, uses 2005 as the base year. For the regulations, why is the oil and gas sector's 2030 target based on 2019 levels, not 2005 levels? That illustrates what I was saying earlier about oil and gas companies having to do less than all other businesses.

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I urge you to look at the new, 2022 plan. You will see that emissions are coming down faster in some sectors and slower in others because of technology availability and price.

The electricity sector, for instance, has made significant reductions because the cost of solar and wind technologies has come down a lot in recent years. As a result—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

We now go to Ms. Collins.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I listened with interest to your response to Mr. Deltell regarding Canada's rankings. I was looking at the performance index that was put out. Canada ranks 62nd out of 67 in the 2024 performance index on climate change. Your response didn't completely make sense to me, because there are other oil-producing countries in that ranking. Norway is number 12. The United Kingdom is number 20. The U.S., even though they are low down on the list at 57, are still doing better than we are.

I'm curious. How do you respond to the fact that we are ranked so low?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Again, as I said to Mr. Deltell, the report focuses notably—not solely, but notably—on oil and gas production. It's true that oil and gas production has been going up. However, I could talk to you about the Climate Action Tracker that looked at our performance, Climate Transparency or the G7 accelerator—

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Do you not agree that your government, Minister—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Go one at a time, please.

I'll give the floor to Ms. Collins.

You can ask a follow-up. Go ahead, please.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Do you not agree that your government is responsible for regulating the oil and gas industry and ensuring that we are reducing our emissions in that sector?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

That's why we put forward a cap on emissions.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Yet, we continue to fail, time and again. You water down those policies.

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

That cap has just been introduced. In fact, it's in draft form. We will finalize it in 2025.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Okay. Great.

You've come here before. I asked you this question, and you refused to answer: At this point, do you feel comfortable acknowledging that the Trans Mountain pipeline was a mistake?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

It's a decision that was made before I arrived in politics.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Yet, in 2016, at the Liberal Party convention, you said, on pipelines, “The atmosphere and our climate certainly don't need them. Many of us believe we cannot build pipelines and meet our international climate commitments at the same time.”

Given that this government bought a pipeline and that you are a minister representing this government, can you at least admit it was a mistake now? It's $35 billion later and increasing our emissions. Can you honestly tell Canadians that you didn't think it was a good idea in the beginning, but that now, clearly, it is an economic and environmental disaster?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We're over time.

Mr. Leslie.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to circle back to your comments on the idea of creating a global carbon tax on international shipping, which would amount to Canadians' money being sent abroad, I guess.

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I made no such comment. I'm sorry.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Well, I was just looking.... I know you said this earlier, Minister: “We are very supportive of the discussions that are happening at the International Marine Organization to put in place some kind of levy on international marine transportation”. Now, in a Canadian context, what you call a carbon “levy” here is a carbon tax. We all know that. I have to assume this is a global or international carbon tax you are espousing here.

My question to you is this: We go out and talk to our constituents. We get a sense of what's going on on the ground. Do you honestly believe Canadians can afford another carbon tax right now?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

What you're saying is simply not true.

What I said is that there are discussions at the International Maritime Organization, and we're part of those discussions.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Why would you be discussing it if you don't plan on doing it?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

There's discussion on a number of issues at the International Maritime Organization.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

What do you discuss if you don't plan on doing it? Why would you have international discussions if you don't plan on acting on them? What an odd waste of time.

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

It's a complex problem. We're looking at different—

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