Environment Committee on Dec. 4th, 2024

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

It's just a yes-or-no question. Can you tell us how many emissions have been reduced?

[Francis Bilodeau]

Our GHG emissions that we have calculated in a quantitative amount are those up to 2030. These are intended to generate GHG emissions beyond that, and so I—

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Does that mean you can't tell us? You can't tell us.

[Francis Bilodeau]

There is no quantitative —

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

You can't tell us how many emissions have been reduced—

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

—for $700 million—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. van Koeverden, go ahead.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

—to a multinational billion-dollar company.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Excuse me, Mr. Mazier—

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

These are non-partisan witnesses who are here to help inform our reports. They are not partisans and they're not to be berated by my fellow MPs. I think that's inappropriate. They're not on trial for something, and that type of conduct is inappropriate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We'll continue, but I think Mr. Bilodeau's answer was pretty clear. There are two phases, one of which includes GHG reduction estimates, while the second phase is more geared towards laying the groundwork for the future. It's not that he doesn't want to say or that they've never thought about the issue; it's just that's the way it's divided up.

Anyway, we'll continue.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

I'll ask the question again.

How many emissions are supposed to be directly reduced as a result of the $700-million handout to PowerCo? How many emissions? Can you tell me, yes or no? That's a pretty simple question. Do you have any idea?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

That's contradictory, Mr. Mazier.

[Francis Bilodeau]

I will try to answer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. Mazier, you're saying.... I stopped the clock, but just so that we set the tone, there's a contradiction in your questioning there. You're asking how many, and then it becomes a yes-or-no question.

I'll let Mr. Bilodeau take care of himself.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

I'll move on. How about that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Go ahead, Mr. Bilodeau.

I'm sure we're going to hit our stride here. It's going to be smooth.

[Francis Bilodeau]

To be clear, our calculations are based on emissions going up to 2030. Beyond that, calculating emissions is a very unclear science. We've not done quantitative assessments, but we expect that the investments in batteries and the electrification—

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

You can't tell us.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

I have a second question. This one's pretty clear-cut.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I'm sorry, Mr. van Koeverden.

Excuse me, Mr. Mazier. I've stopped the clock. We have a point of order.

The plan is to finish at 6:30.

What's the point of order?

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Just as Mr. Bilodeau started answering the question, Mr. Mazier interjected again. I would like to hear the answers.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

That's not a point of order.

This is $8 billion, Adam. It's $8 billion, for heaven's sake.