Environment Committee on May 5th, 2022

[Miodrag Jovanovic]

I would like to distinguish between two things.

You are correct, an evaluation occurs every five years. As announced in the budget, and as we will see in the upcoming bill, if the captured carbon is not permanently stored, be it in the soil or concrete, for example, and the credit served to produce oil instead, the company will have to pay back the portion of the credit used for non-eligible purposes. So there would be a reimbursement.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Perfect. That answers one question, in any case.

[Miodrag Jovanovic]

The second—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Unfortunately, you will have to stop there, Mr. Jovanovic.

Ms. Collins, you have two minutes.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Going back quickly to the clean fuel standard, you said that you couldn't answer the question about double-dipping. Can you tell me why you're not able to answer that question?

[Miodrag Jovanovic]

First of all, I'm not in a position to answer it because ECCC is responsible for the regulations.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Could we go to ECCC? Why haven't the clean fuel standard regulations been designed to eliminate doubled accounting to achieve real reductions, not just paper ones?

[Hilary Geller]

My colleague John Moffet, who I think is well known to the committee, is the ADM in charge of this file.

Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to speak to it.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Okay.

Maybe then going back to some of my colleagues' questions about the peer review, I see that Canada is years behind schedule in its peer review. The last we heard was that Canada was starting the process of doing a self-review. Can you give a quick update on when we can expect the self-review, at least, and ideally also a timeline for the peer review to be done?

[Miodrag Jovanovic]

I can answer that.

As I said previously, the end goal here would be to have the final self-review—

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

I understand that the deadline is the end of 2023, but I'm just curious about the self-review.

[Miodrag Jovanovic]

Yes, I'm getting there.

As I was saying, that's the end goal. We have to understand what the steps are before that. To get to the self-review report to give enough time to get and to do the—

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Do you have a date you can give me?

[Miodrag Jovanovic]

—international peer review, we probably need a few months before that. Therefore, we're probably aiming for the summer of next year at least to get to that December 2023 deadline.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

You're aiming for the self-review to be done in the summer of next year?

[Miodrag Jovanovic]

That would be the aim in order to get to the—

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We have to go to Mr. Dreeshen now.

Mr. Dreeshen, you have three minutes.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

Thank you very much.

The library researchers have done a great job bringing some information to us. Of course, they discuss some of our G20 commitments at COP26. I really think one of the key things, and one of the key statements they made, was that “Definitions of fossil fuel subsidies vary, and each country has the flexibility to interpret its G20 commitment in accordance with its national circumstances.” Also, they talk about “rapidly scaling up the deployment of clean power generation and energy efficiency measures”, including getting rid of the coal aspect, and once again dealing with national circumstances.

My basic question is why we are, a country that has fantastic research and amazing natural resources.... What sense of pride do we feel to be the most aggressive in this particular situation? It takes me four hours to fly from Ottawa to Calgary. If you live north of the 49th, you realize there's a different world up there. Why does this government, and your departments, feel it is so necessary to be so aggressive in that regard?

Secondly, and finally, with the investment tax credit of 30% for clean technologies, what types of technologies are you really defining as clean? As I've mentioned before, if you're going to flood massive tracts of land for hydro power, there's an environmental impact. All types of energy sources have an environmental impact. When are we going to talk about the realities of everything that happens in this country before we throw ourselves at the mercy of a bunch of folks at the next COP meeting?

[Miodrag Jovanovic]

Maybe I can start with the last part of your question.

Again, we will need to engage with experts to determine the technologies that would end up qualifying for the up-to-30% credit that's been announced in the budget. The focus will likely be on net-zero technologies, including battery storage solutions and clean hydrogen—for instance, green hydrogen—to give you some ideas there.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

Again, I agree, but we're simply taking a more aggressive point. That was my position. We should be looking at what all Canadians have at their fingertips and what we do, rather than feeling embarrassed about having the greatest riches in the world and the greatest technology to get it to the world so that we can help.

I cede my time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. Longfield, you're batting cleanup here.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and Mr. Dreeshen.

This study has been on fossil fuel subsidies. We did get a summary indicating that all nine subsidies that have been identified have either been eliminated or are being scheduled to be eliminated. I'd like to go back to NRCan and ECCC on the tax treatments, which I know aren't subsidies, on whether we've modelled the tax treatments of carbon capture and storage, and whether increasing the stringency of regulations make it economically viable to keep production in Canada, given some tax advantages, versus shutting it down altogether and having leakage go to other countries.

[Hilary Geller]

I apologize, as I'm not sure I'm 100% clear on the question.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I think Mr. Jovanovic might know where I'm going on that one.