Environment Committee on Sept. 27th, 2022

[Christopher Morgan]

I've been saying for about six years now that we need to be completely off the grid. It takes a number of steps to do it. Even with moving to electric, I have concerns about how we manage our electrical sources, even in battery containment, and even how we waste and what we do with that waste. It should be net-zero.

I had the luxury of building a facility with my father in the Caribbean. He was the chief medical officer of the British Virgin Islands. We built a home down there that actually took all the rainwater and moved it into the largest cistern on Tortola. We put it into two cisterns, and it went through reverse osmosis. We managed to do that supply. We also did a wind turbine system very similar to the typhoon system that the Japanese have, because the propeller units that we use.... You don't have to look far to find out the damage they do. They interrupt sleep cycles and REM sleep for people. They kill bee populations.

When we're doing these terminals off the grid, we're doing a number of things. We're looking at things like having beehives on the rooftop to help our friends who have lost...to help the plants in germinating. China is an example of where they have to artificially germinate things.

We need to look at that sustainably, same with how you manage the power. It's solar power; it's wind power. With those things, we don't have much of a waste when we're done, so I think that's really where we're headed.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

Thank you very much.

There are 53 windmills that start around six miles from my place. They've been up for probably 10 or 15 years. They have another few years left, and then somebody will have to deal with them, and they have to deal with the components right now. If it wasn't for oil and gas, if it wasn't for hydrocarbons, those products wouldn't be available.

That's what I'm getting at when I say that we should look at the full life cycle of any of these things. We have this approach that says if it came from hydro, then it doesn't matter. Well, it does matter, and we have a lot of land that has been flooded and all of the different types of things and ecosystems that have been changed because of it. It does matter, and I think it's important that we deal with it.

I know, Mr. Côté, that you were speaking specifically about how we need to have solar and wind power. The discussion Mr. Morgan indicated, with bees disrupted by windmills with propellers, the same sort of thing happens with birds and so on. It's not a zero sum. I'm curious whether, in what you are working with, Mr. Côté, you have taken into account or are able to take into account those particular ideas.

[Frédéric Côté]

Thank you very much.

We have access to data on greenhouse gas emissions during the life cycle for each industry, be it hydroelectric, wind energy or solar energy, including for the manufacturing of components. You're right.

The challenge we face is so big that a single solution will not be enough. All renewable energy sources need to be considered. The energy source best suited to the project can be chosen on the basis of good impact study. There are different aspects that must be considered when a project is being analyzed, including birds, plants, wildlife and land. Once the project is implemented, it must fit well with the particular characteristics of the site. I should add that all projects carried out were subject to an impact study first.

You're right in believing that all available renewable energy sources must be examined.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Unfortunately, time is up.

Mr. Duguid, you have now have the floor.

[Terry Duguid, Liberal, Winnipeg South, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm going to give my last two minutes to Ms. May.

It's good to see you again, Mr. Wright. We met in Victoria in 2019 or maybe 2020. I think it was the last conference I attended before COVID hit, and I was very impressed with the concept and the reality that you are promoting.

I'm just wondering. You didn't get a chance to go deeper into this, but what do you need from the federal government? It sounded like financing was a challenge. I wonder if the Infrastructure Bank is something you have explored, or are there other government mechanisms that could be helpful in scaling up your very worthwhile enterprise?

[Randy Wright]

I would say that number one would be assistance in funding. It's a large project. As I said, we put our dollars in and we will continue to put our dollars in. Transport Canada itself has been very slow. I understand that COVID happened and people were working from home, but I remember a few years ago, when we first started to explore this, that the gentleman in charge of Transport, the ADM, told me that we had no team and the FAA was 14 months ahead of us. Now they have assembled a team, but it's been slow. They've been working well with us, but we would like to see more initiative on that with the government agency.

Yes, we've been exploring. We have two chargers ourselves now. You probably heard Mr. Biden announce down in the U.S. that he's going right across the country in a big initiative on charging stations. Our hope is that the governments would follow suit. The provincial government in B.C. has been suggesting that and is working on that, but it will be important to have charging stations at 14 different locations on the docks to charge these aircraft.

Lastly.... Oh, go ahead, sorry.

[Terry Duguid, Liberal, Winnipeg South, MB]

No, finish up and then I'll go to my next question.

[Randy Wright]

I was just going to say that billions of dollars are going into battery technology. I used to have a brick phone; I carry an iPhone now. The key with aircraft is the lift, the weight. Our bet is that the batteries are going to get smaller and the ultimate would be a power pack that you can unplug and take out of the aircraft and plug a new one in after it's been charged.

[Terry Duguid, Liberal, Winnipeg South, MB]

Thank you, Randy.

My next question is for Mr. Côté. It could also be for Mr. Morgan.

It sounded like there was some sense of frustration with government: with silos, coordination and working efficiently with technology companies. We want more renewable energy. Our grid is supposed to be net-zero by 2035. What helpful hints can you give us in terms of dealing with tech companies like yours more efficiently?

[Frédéric Côté]

Indeed, we do a lot of work with small and medium-sized enterprises, or SMEs. A lot of support is available.

The fact remains that the Canadian market is still relatively small and that SMEs in the renewable energy sector must quickly turn to export markets as well. It's very important, then, to leverage innovation and ensure that programs are offered, many of which already exist and must be maintained.

College-level applied research has a direct impact on SMEs and its funding concretely supports market access and technology development. We're of the view that this must continue and that our businesses must be supported to allow them to export.

[Terry Duguid, Liberal, Winnipeg South, MB]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to pass my time to Ms. May, but maybe you could respond to the issue of government coordination in another response.

Go ahead, Elizabeth.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

I'm more than grateful that you're afraid to pass your time to me.

My question is for Randy Wright at Harbour Air. I will fully disclose that I'm a regular Harbour Air passenger. This is in my and Laurel's neck of the woods.

I well recall huddling around a laptop in 2019 to watch the test flight that took place. We were in Madrid at COP25, gathering people around us to say, “Look, the first electric plane is taking off. That's in Canada.” I know it stalled with COVID.

You want assistance in funding. Could you sketch out for us the potential globally? I think a lot of people will think that an electric plane is not going to make a big difference in the global carbon situation, but if this stat is right, half of all flights globally are less than 800 kilometres.

[Randy Wright]

That's correct. There are short stages and a lot of small airports around, so you're absolutely right, Elizabeth, that opportunity strikes there.

You saw that Air Canada just made an announcement about their 30-seat aircraft, so there are going to be short stages. There are many airports throughout Canada and the United States that are within a short distance. That will help with congestion at the larger airports and into the smaller communities. Short-stage lengths are key in how we see that going, and with the rest of the aviation world.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thanks very much.

Ms. Pauzé, you have the floor.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Côté, my questions are for you. Thank you for being with us.

Your website shows the progress that your organization has made in helping small and medium-sized enterprises in the clean technology sector. Nergica seems to have a role that I'd call key, because your expertise and your partners really seem to serve people who want to innovate, at an affordable cost.

When change is discussed, it's often said that attention must be paid to the workforce and a fair transition must be allowed. I'd like to hear from you on this model, at Nergica, and its benefits, but particularly its effects on the workforce.

[Frédéric Côté]

As I've said, Nergica is a member of the College Centre for Technology Transfer. What makes Nergica unique in terms of its activities is both its unique research site and its team of leading researchers. We have about 40 professionals dedicated to supporting businesses. In addition, because of our ties to post‑secondary education, we work closely with all colleges in Canada, including the CÉGEP de la Gaspésie et des Îles, to ensure that the workforce of tomorrow will benefit from the most recent developments.

College teachers work with us in our research projects. We also bring in numerous interns to work with our researchers and in our businesses, ensuring that this future workforce will have expertise in applied research in innovation. We offer various programs, including the one in research and innovation at the CÉGEP de la Gaspésie et des Îles. In that program, students can complete their training by taking part in placements at college centres like ours.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you.

A lot of people are involved in your organization. I also understand that there are jobs.

You're surely familiar with the Clean Growth Hub, which is intended to promote growth in clean technologies. I see the services you offer, combined with specific expertise, and your knowledge in the field, and I wonder whether some services are being duplicated.

Is the Clean Growth Hub an appropriate mechanism for harmonizing clean technology programs, or should existing coordination models be leveraged?

[Frédéric Côté]

The challenge we face is so big that there's room for a lot of people. I can't talk specifically about the Clean Growth Hub, but I can talk about the programs we administer, including in co‑operation with the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada, a federal agency. One of those programs aims to establish technology access centres, and we're recognized by both the Government of Quebec and the federal government as that type of centre.

The challenge is really to support as many actors as possible and as closely as possible in the field. My recommendation would be to support college-level applied research at Canadian colleges and institutes. That would really ensure good coverage because we're well spread out in all regions, including rural areas, where there's also innovation and where projects are deployed in communities. I'm of the view that this model is relevant for all Canadian provinces and that it certainly merits greater attention. Although there's been progress in this area in recent years, there's still work to be done.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

My next question is related somewhat to the point you just raised. We know that subsidies to the oil and gas sector are in the billions of dollars and that there's a lack of transparency. Canada provides 14 and a half times more assistance to those sectors than to renewable energies. However, the renewable energy sector is the one that we should be helping to come up as soon as possible, as you've said.

What means do you think the federal government could use to reverse that inequality in terms of available supports? I know investment is needed in applied research, but is there another way we could reverse that inequality?

[Frédéric Côté]

In terms of assistance, it's important to ensure the continued development of an electrical grid that uses renewable energies at competitive costs. That's very important.

We must also train the workforce. The workforce needed to work in wind farms and solar farms includes on‑site technicians who have the necessary skills. Other industries in the natural resources sector already employ those types of technicians, who could retrain to work in new types of businesses.

In Canada, the challenge lies in the fact that natural resources are under provincial jurisdiction. Each province has a different approach, which is a good thing because each has its own geography and resources that it must work with.

That said, we'd certainly benefit from greater integration at the federal level, if only for electricity, in terms of transmission projects. Although we already have a lot of interconnection with our neighbours to the south, we'd benefit from more between provinces to increase the capacity for renewable energy integration.

All these elements must be considered, in addition to support for research and innovation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Your time is up, Ms. Pauzé.

Ms. Collins, you have the floor.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all of the witnesses for being here.

My questions are for Randy Wright.

Thank you so much for being here and highlighting some of the amazing work of Harbour Air. Not only are you folks the first net-zero airline with the first electric airplane, but I'm just so proud that Harbour Air has put out colonies of bees—another witness mentioned bees—to help support our urban ecosystem in Victoria.

I want to ask about that first successful flight. As Elizabeth mentioned, I was also in Madrid watching, and I was just so proud of what was happening. Can you tell us a bit about the significance of that successful test flight?

[Randy Wright]

Sure. Thanks a lot.

By the way, I learned a lot about bees. I was actually putting them up on the roof. I didn't know anything about it, but I know a lot now.

That was a huge day, really, in aviation and in the world, and on the Fraser River. We could only fly, with the permit, 10 miles an hour or less, and it was right at nine when the takeoff happened. There were at least 500 people on the bank watching us take off. We had good hopes that everything was going to go fine, and it did. It was the founder of the airline who actually piloted the aircraft.

We took the plane into the hangar, in which we had a stage. I've done the media for the past 20 years and I have never seen a media scrum like that before: Popular Mechanics, CNN, the front page of the The New York Times, The Mirror from London. Everybody was there, and it was a big deal for Canada in the aviation space. We were very proud and knew we had something going here.

We soldier on. That was 1.0, and we're now doing 2.0 as we speak. That plane just came out of the paint shop a week ago. We're assembling that, and we hope that Transport can move along at a faster pace with us. I have to say that they've been really good, but they did not have any people at the start of this.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

I understand that you're currently going through the certification process with Transport Canada for the second electric airplane. Can you talk a little bit about how that process has worked and any hurdles you have had to overcome?

[Randy Wright]

Yes. Again, it would be Transport itself, just in the personnel and getting them out to inspect the aircraft. The supply chain has hurt us. We all know about the supply chain. For the batteries, we have now switched suppliers to H55 in Switzerland. We're going out to Switzerland to meet with them in the next few weeks. They're a much better provider. The batteries are getting smaller. We're excited about that, getting back to weight and lift.

Really, it's the supply chain and just government moving along. Again, it's new to them, so that's not to criticize them. They have been very good, but it's all new to them and new to Canada. As I said, the FAA was way ahead of Canada on these projects.