Evidence of meeting #33 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was parks.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Darlene Upton  Vice-President, Protected Areas Establishment and Conservation, Parks Canada Agency
Andrew Campbell  Senior Vice-President, Operations, Parks Canada Agency
Mary Duckworth  Caldwell First Nation
Fred Francis  City Councillor, Ward 1, City of Windsor
Bill Roesel  President, The Friends of Ojibway Prairie
Mike Fisher  Board Member, The Friends of Ojibway Prairie
Janet Sumner  Executive Director, Wildlands League

2:25 p.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

Part of the reason for my question is that there is a group in Guelph that wants to come forward and be considered as a candidate for one of the future parks. However, Guelph City Council hasn't discussed it yet. We haven't gone any further than a group saying there's a part of Guelph that could be a national park, and what do we do to get the interest of the federal government? I get phone calls on that.

Unanimously, I think we would all love to see a national park in our areas, but there is a process, and now we have two processes.

Are you working with the Bill C-248 process or with the Parks Canada process, or are you doing both at the same time?

2:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

You have 20 seconds, please.

2:25 p.m.

City Councillor, Ward 1, City of Windsor

Fred Francis

It's both at the same time.

2:25 p.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

Thank you.

2:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Okay, that's pretty clear.

Madame Pauzé is next.

2:25 p.m.

Bloc

Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC

Thank you very much.

I thank the witnesses for being here with us.

If I understood correctly, you are all in favour of Bill C‑248. However, Parks Canada is already working on this and, as Mr. Francis was saying, you are working on two projects.

Earlier we were wondering about the use of Bill C‑248 when there is already a process under way. We were talking about time as a factor and saying that we could speed things up through Bill C‑248. We talked about protecting biodiversity.

My question is simple. Do we really need to go through the federal government? Would it not be faster to go through the provincial or municipal government?

2:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Who is that question addressed to?

2:25 p.m.

Bloc

Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC

Anyone can answer it.

2:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Are there any volunteers?

2:25 p.m.

City Councillor, Ward 1, City of Windsor

Fred Francis

I'll just jump in, then, and answer it very quickly.

I respect the question, and you're right. However, from the City of Windsor perspective, the more rapid approach is more favourable, more concrete. It allows us to move forward quickly and to know what we are getting into.

For us anyway, the more rapid approach would be more favourable, and that is why we're here to speak positively about Bill C-248.

2:25 p.m.

Bloc

Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC

If I understand correctly, this will go faster if we opt for Bill C‑248 instead of a provincial or municipal process.

2:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Mr. Francis is nodding his head.

2:25 p.m.

Bloc

Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC

Mr. Francis nodded his head.

2:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Yes.

Do you have any other questions?

2:25 p.m.

Bloc

Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC

I will cede the rest of my time to my colleague, Mr. Masse.

2:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Mr. Masse, you have the floor.

2:25 p.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Thanks to my colleagues who have been so generous. This has been a long journey, and I really do appreciate that and the questions being asked.

My first question is for Chief Duckworth.

The Caldwell First Nation is an interesting story. You did your part for our country, and you had to go through a long period of time to establish the footprint you have right now.

I remember when we crashed the Gordie Howe bridge community benefits when you were left out of that process. Would doing this properly be part of reconciliation for that most recent mistake? Next to this project, we have Canada's number one infrastructure project, and you were left out of community benefits, despite being basically the section 35 landowners.

2:25 p.m.

Caldwell First Nation

Chief Mary Duckworth

That's a great question, Brian.

In truth and reconciliation, we talk about that, and the truth is that we're trying to create a national park through a legislative framework so that it is solid and it will be there.

The reconciliation part comes with action. There can be no truth and reconciliation without actions from the governments that sit over top of the nations. We like to see ourselves as equals to you; however, we are not treated as equals, as you know.

We've come a long way. Caldwell First Nation was guaranteed Point Pelee and the lands around it, which was our traditional territory, after the War of 1812. However, the settlers pushed us off. We then needed to go into a specific land claim process, which was granted. We won, and there's long documentation to speak of our history.

Being able to have truth and reconciliation means exactly what we're doing. Look at us all working together at different levels of government, as well as non-government, special interests and people who care about the environment. We're all at the table.

We're all waiting. I just feel like we're waiting for Parks Canada to say that they're going to do it or they're not going to do it. I'm a little confused. I understood it was going to be done, that they were mandated to do it, and there were six parks. That's the issue I have.

Also, we know Canada has aligned itself with the rights of indigenous people. Where is Canada at with that? Now that Canada has adopted that, it's a piece that we need to look at when we're developing these parks and respecting what is happening.

Meegwetch.

2:30 p.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Thank you, and thank you for your leadership on this.

To Councillor Francis, I'm not sure everybody understands the significance of the Gordie Howe bridge that's going up. In the areas that we represent, we have 40,000 vehicles per day that go through, and 10,000 trucks. This new border crossing is actually going to assume much of that traffic.

I have concerns about an unregulated draft policy that we have with the government's plan right now. I'm not saying it's wrong for other spots, but it is for this spot, and it might even end up with legislation. My concern is how long it takes.

The Gordie Howe bridge is going to come in a couple of years. There are going to be tens of thousands of vehicles right next to this place and running along the entire ecosystem alongside it.

What are your concerns about how long this takes and the supports necessary to support this fragile ecosystem? It's going to get an inundation of traffic that's new, right next to it. I'm really worried. We've seen how the memorandum of understanding for the port land for Ojibway Shores has taken forever, for lots of reasons.

Do you share any of those concerns?

2:30 p.m.

City Councillor, Ward 1, City of Windsor

Fred Francis

I do, and that's a great point. As you all know, Windsor hosts the busiest border crossing in all of North America. With the Gordie Howe International Bridge set to come online, that traffic and that intensity is going to increase.

The city supports Bill C-248 because it allows us to move quickly, because we really have an opportunity, and time is not on our side when we're talking about vehicular traffic increasing. We have an opportunity to move fast now and really safeguard this gem, and increase this gem and grow this gem now, and grow it for decades to come.

We know that the border traffic is not going to decrease. It's only going to increase, so the opportunity is now, in our opinion.

2:30 p.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Your organization does a lot of work with ecotourism. The Gordie Howe bridge is going to have a free bike and pedestrian access lane. We're going to connect into this Ontario ecosystem. Slow Roll Detroit, for example, has 4,000 people who go out on Monday just to bicycle and so forth, and we actually have some of the “Great Trail of Canada” into the United States there.

Do you have any concerns about the stress on the ecosystem if we don't have the proper supports to do ecotourism correctly?

October 28th, 2022 / 2:30 p.m.

City Councillor, Ward 1, City of Windsor

Fred Francis

Absolutely. Obviously, protecting the environment is a concern for all of us. Hosting that busiest border crossing in all of North America does provide stress on our ecosystem. Anything we can do to safeguard against that and put the resources in place to battle it is something we're interested in.

Quite frankly, the City of Windsor cannot do that alone. That's yet another reason that we're calling on Parks Canada to essentially take stewardship and provide maintenance for Ojibway Park. The City of Windsor is looking for that, as we just don't have the resources to do that alone.

2:30 p.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Ms. Sumner, could you respond to this, too?

2:30 p.m.

Executive Director, Wildlands League

Janet Sumner

I'm sorry, MP Masse. What was that question again, just so I get—

2:30 p.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

It was the stress on the ecosystem that might take place with regard to increased traffic and ecotourism that might take place down there. Point Pelee has been under stress from that as well. My concern is the length of time it will take to get a full operation and plan—