Environment Committee on April 24th, 2023

[Laurie Pushor]

We have an extensive oversight program. We have an inspection strategy for each mine site. That's implemented over the course of the year. We bring in various experts to support those inspections and to understand what's happening out there, but first and foremost, it's the operator's responsibility to be running those types of inspections and sweeps and doing so on a very diligent and aggressive basis. Part of our review is to see that they are performing the way we expect in these spaces.

In both of those instances, we will be investigating what happened to understand what occurred and why, and if there are to be any consequences for those operators in that case.

In the bird incident as an example, notwithstanding what our formal policies and procedures might state today, we understand the public interest in what's happening, so we communicated on Saturday morning what was happening with the bird and wildlife incident at Suncor's facility.

On the release into the Athabasca, we were on site swiftly to check exactly what was happening. It is an approved settling pond, so that water can be released, but it exceeded the limits for TSS, total suspended solids, that should be in there, so we're investigating that incident as well.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

You mentioned in your opening that Imperial has a duty to inform when any person knows or ought to have known that they might be affected by that issue. You mentioned that Imperial notified you that they had communicated this. What exactly did Imperial let you know about that communication?

[Laurie Pushor]

First of all, they advised that they did communicate in May. They have advised that to us, and I think they have advised that in public statements. I'm going to be a bit guarded in what I say, because their performance in meeting expectations is part of our investigation, and we'll be examining that.

In addition to that, of course, there are a number of protocols already. Their original mine approval, the joint panel approval, has communications expectations built into it. It will be part of our investigation to determine if they were fulfilling all of those expectations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Mr. Barsalou-Duval, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Pushor, thank you for joining us today.

I thank all the witnessed for travelling to be here.

I would like to go over a few things.

At the last committee meeting, Mr. Corson from Imperial Oil mentioned that the incident was a communication problem. That is also what others seemed to be saying.

I'm trying to figure out if there's more to it than that. I think the responsibility goes beyond communication and extends to the leaks from these ponds and the contamination that these communities have experienced. There must be awareness that, when there is a leak, communicating is not the only thing that needs to be done. On the one hand, you have to stop the leak, and on the other hand, you have to make sure that the people on the other side are informed and that they don't get poisoned.

Mr. Pushor, can you confirm that there are no more leaks today, that everything is taken care of and that people have nothing to worry about regarding drinking water?

[Laurie Pushor]

The emergency protection order, as I outlined, has a number of expectations of Imperial in doing that. The first and foremost is to re-establish the containment areas and make sure the interceptions are in place to stop any further seepage beyond those containment zones. To that end, they've drilled a number of wells, installed some extensive—

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you. I understand that, although steps were taken to ensure that everything was safe, you cannot confirm to me that there are no more leaks in the ponds.

I would like to ask you another question. I'm not an expert on how things work in this industry, but I would imagine that they don't let any more water accumulate in the ponds if there is a leak. Is that the case or do they keep adding to it?

[Laurie Pushor]

As I was saying, they've done an extensive amount of work to establish what are intended to be effective containment zones. In addition to that, we've required them to expand the groundwater monitoring infrastructure all through the impacted area. They've drilled in excess of 115 monitoring wells across the area. That helps delineate the reach of this contaminant.

As you know, this was in northern Canada, and the temperatures are such that many of those wells are still frozen. Water is just beginning to move, mostly on the surface right now, and we'll have extensive monitoring throughout the period.

In addition to that, Imperial has been required to have further mitigation, so that if it isn't working the way they intend, it's about what's next and what's next. As is normal for any regulator, we will continue to escalate as required and as the evidence requires.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

For an organization like yours, the most important thing is credibility. The indigenous community representatives who testified earlier said that they felt they had been kept in the dark, which greatly undermined their trust in the Alberta government, the federal government and Imperial Oil.

If you don't communicate with people enough, they won't trust you going forward.

Have you taken steps to restore people's trust? For example, have you acted so that people feel that from now on you are going to take more steps to make sure this doesn't happen again and that they can trust you?

[Laurie Pushor]

First of all, first nations leaders and other community leaders have made it very clear that they expect more communication and they expect more effective communication. We have taken the step, in the environmental protection order, to compel Imperial to have a communications plan as a part of that order. We are monitoring their performance in relation to that requirement.

In addition to that, we have undertaken to provide weekly updates to all of the communities. I am in touch with many of the leaders of those communities on a weekly basis as well. We have started posting our water-testing results on our website and we're sharing those directly with the communities so that they can see the results for themselves. That's been a clear message that they've been emphatic about. We have compelled Imperial to be releasing their data as well, and I believe that other regulators that are testing in the area are sharing their data.

In addition to that, for water quality in the rivers in the area beyond the immediately impacted area, there is a regional collaborative monitoring program that involves the Government of Alberta, the Government of Canada and a number of those communities in the region. That data is shared with all of those communities directly. I would also note that they're stepping up to make that more readily available on a website there as well.

Finally, I would just say that the Alberta Ministry of Environment and Protected Areas has also invested significant money to expand that river monitoring over the course of the next several months.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

The information I have is that over the last 20 years, about 140 million litres of various substances have been spilled, including in the Northwest Territories.

Don't you feel that these tailings ponds are kind of a time bomb in that they pose a perpetual risk of contaminating and poisoning the people who live around them?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Answer briefly, please.

[Laurie Pushor]

The management of the tailings ponds across all of the mines in the oil sands area starts with the approval in the joint panels. All of these mines were approved by joint panels. In that program, an extensive amount of attention is paid to what the tailings management plans are. There were very open and broad-based communications and hearings that they came through around those approvals.

In addition, each company is required to file an annual report on their tailings management and on what's happening with their tailings program. Included in that is a community notification of those results.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

[Laurie Pushor]

I would just say there's a five-year renewal of those plans that needs to be—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes, okay.

We'll go to Ms. McPherson now, please.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Pushor, during COVID the water monitoring for these communities was halted. Indigenous communities found out from the media. At that time, you said the AER would do a better job.

From my perspective, what we're seeing is the AER failing indigenous communities, failing to communicate when disasters are affecting their communities, saying sorry, and then doing it again. I don't see any other way that we can interpret this. Continually coming forward and saying that you're going to do better without actually doing better is not particularly helpful.

Mr. Pushor, I'm going ask you a series of questions. I'd ask that you be very concise with the answers, please.

Has the AER conducted deep groundwater monitoring around the Kearl site since the excessive seepage was first reported in May 2022?

[Laurie Pushor]

We have compelled Imperial to do that deep groundwater monitoring. We have been doing verification monitoring of our own to confirm that the results we're seeing from Imperial are consistent with our verification results.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Have you found evidence of toxins associated with process-affected water in that deep groundwater monitoring?

[Laurie Pushor]

Yes. There have been positive tests across the impacted area for some time.

Based on the testing results we've seen, the area of the reach of those contaminants is defined and contained. That's the program we compelled Imperial to put in place with the 150-plus monitoring wells.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you.

Did your testing indicate elevated levels or exceedances for any of the following: polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, total sulfide, total selenium, fluoride, nitrate, total aluminum, total iron or dissolved iron, or total zinc?

[Laurie Pushor]

I'm sorry. I can share with you our monitoring results, and you can see those. You have named a number of things that, off the top of my head, I'm not going to be confident about.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Have you shared these measurements of tailings toxins with the first nations or Métis groups living in the area?

[Laurie Pushor]

Our verification results have been shared, and I understand Imperial has shared their results as well.

I would note that the two indicators we have been seeing predominantly are F2 hydrocarbons and naphthenic acids. I'm not sure how those apply to the list you provided, but those are leading indicators and the ones we and others are watching quite closely.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Just to confirm, you have shared all of the information, the data, from the deep groundwater monitoring with indigenous and Métis communities.