Environment Committee on March 3rd, 2022

[Chief Duncan Malcolm Michano, Chief, Biigtigong Nishnaabeg]

Meegwetch for giving me the opportunity. I'm Chief Duncan Michano from Biigtigong Nishnaabeg. We live in northern Ontario.

The issue is that the Government of Canada is delegating the governance and policy-making for nuclear waste to the nuclear industry. I liken it to putting the fox in charge of the chicken coop.

The nuclear industry in Canada has been creating high-level nuclear waste now for approximately 60 years. During that time, the nuclear industry has created somewhere in the order of three million used fuel bundles, probably more. These highly radioactive bundles need to be cooled for a period of time in pools of water, which themselves become contaminated.

The NWMO, which is an industry-owned organization, has been delegated by the nuclear industry to determine methods to safely store this waste, waste that is created in the nuclear reactors. Some of these elements exist nowhere else in the universe but are created solely in these nuclear reactors. This waste is deadly to all forms of life on our planet, and toxic for thousands of years—hundreds of thousands of years in a lot of cases.

The method the NWMO has chosen to dispose of this deadly waste is to bury the nuclear waste in deep geological repositories. The intent is to bury that waste at some point and then walk away, leaving future generations to deal with the issues and the contamination of their homelands by an industry that cares only about the bottom line.

I would like to point out that as a prospector—I wander around the bush all the time, and I study geology—I understand geological processes, and the earth is not static; it's plastic. Over geological time, all rock formations move. These movements will eventually allow the toxic nuclear waste to then leach into the environment. It's not a matter of if it will eventually leach out but when.

What is the legacy that we wish to leave our descendants? A legacy like Chernobyl? Think about that, please.

The Governments of Canada and Ontario must ensure that they, not the nuclear industry, are in charge of nuclear waste policy and must phase out the production of electricity by nuclear means so that no more of this deadly waste is produced.

Attached are numerous resolutions—and you may have that in your files because I sent them in—passed by the Anishinabek Nation and other first nation organizations, including our chiefs in Ontario and the AFN. Some of these resolutions were moved by me. They include opposing the storing of nuclear waste on their lands and our lands and opposing the creation of SMNRs, and demanding that nuclear power be phased out.

There are other—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you, Chief Michano. We did receive that. The clerk mentioned that to me, and it's with the links. That will be reviewed as input by the analysts for the study. We'll have time for questions where you can provide supplementary information right after we hear from Ms. Taylor and Mr. Chapman.

Again, thank you for being here, Chief Michano.

Go ahead, Ms. Taylor.

[Mary Taylor, Director General, Environmental Protection Operations, Department of the Environment]

Good evening.

Environment and Climate Change Canada is the lead federal department for strategic action on a wide range of environmental matters, including action on clean growth and climate change, preventing and managing pollution, conserving nature, and predicting weather and environmental conditions.

The department delivers its mandate through various acts and regulations, such as the Canadian Environmental Protection Act the pollution prevention provisions of the Fisheries Act, the Federal Sustainable Development Act, the Species at Risk Act, the Migratory Birds Convention Act, the Canada Wildlife Act and others.

All nuclear waste projects must undergo a regulatory review—as you know—an environmental assessment and licensing processes. As you also know, the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission plays an integral role in these activities.

Environment and Climate Change Canada is engaged in the review of waste management proposals and technologies as a federal authority under the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act, the Impact Assessment Act and, for other regulatory processes, under a memorandum of understanding with the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission. For these, the department provides specialist and expert information on environmental matters related to its mandate.

We also participate in the federal nuclear and science technology committee that directs research on new technologies and processes for radioactive waste management and the monitoring of any discharges to the natural environment.

In 2021, Natural Resources Canada launched the review and modernization of Canada's radioactive waste policy. From November 2020 to May 2021, the department, together with other federal departments with responsibilities related to radioactive waste, participated in Natural Resources Canada's extensive engagement process, which solicited the views and perspectives of indigenous peoples and interested Canadians on how they would like to see the radioactive waste policy modernized.

For the engagement sessions on the radioactive waste policy, Environment and Climate Change Canada was present to listen to concerns raised by stakeholders and to address questions related to its mandate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much, Ms. Taylor.

Mr. Chapman, for three minutes, please.

[Steve Chapman, Director General, National Programs, Impact Assessment Agency of Canada]

Good evening Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

I am pleased to be here to speak to you about the role of the Impact Assessment Agency in the life cycle management of nuclear projects.

The Impact Assessment Agency of Canada is a federal body accountable to the Minister of Environment and Climate Change and is responsible for implementing the Impact Assessment Act.

Impact assessments help project proponents, the public, indigenous groups and decision-makers understand the possible impacts of proposed projects before they are allowed to proceed. Assessments identify the best ways to avoid or reduce a project's potential negative impacts while increasing the potential positive effects.

The Impact Assessment Act and its regulations both establish the legislative basis for impact assessments and serve as a planning tool that takes into consideration the environmental, health, social and economic effects of major projects. The goal of the impact assessment process is to inform decision-makers about the project impacts and to ensure the protection of people and the environment.

Under the Impact Assessment Act, the Impact Assessment Agency leads and manages the impact assessment process for all federally designated major projects. The physical activities regulations identify the major projects with the greatest potential for adverse effects in areas of federal jurisdiction related to the environment so that they can enter into our impact assessment process.

With respect to nuclear projects, the regulations capture proposed new facilities for storing irradiated nuclear fuel or nuclear waste outside of the boundaries of an existing nuclear facility. These regulations also capture projects proposed for the long-term management and disposal of nuclear fuel or nuclear waste. As well, the regulations capture projects relating to the construction, operation and decommissioning of certain nuclear fission and fusion reactors that meet a specific threshold. Since the coming into force of the Impact Assessment Act in 2019, no designated nuclear projects have yet entered the impact assessment process.

Under the Impact Assessment Act, any assessment of a designated project that includes the physical activities regulated by the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission must be referred to an independent review panel. The Impact Assessment Agency and the CNSC have signed a memorandum of understanding that outlines how these assessments, referred to as “integrated assessments”, will be conducted.

The intent of this MOU is to facilitate one single, comprehensive and coordinated process that meets the requirements of both the Impact Assessment Act and the Nuclear Safety and Control Act. In this way, the principle of one project, one assessment is respected, as the assessment process will integrate the licensing requirements of the CNSC into the impact assessment.

A review panel is a group of independent experts who are responsible for conducting an impact assessment. Members must have knowledge or experience relative to the project's anticipated effects, or regarding the interests and concerns of the indigenous peoples of Canada that are relevant to the assessment. Members of this review panel must also be unbiased and free of conflict.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Sorry, we'll have to stop there, Mr. Chapman, but there will be time for questions.

We'll go to Mr. Seeback for for six minutes, please.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to start with some questions for Ms. Taylor.

On February 3, we heard from the president of the Canadian Nuclear Association, Mr. John Gorman. Mr. Gorman said that clear support from all government policy-makers, clear and ongoing repeated acknowledgement that nuclear is not only clean but needed for a net-zero future, is needed, yet the environment minister seems to not really be able to state his support for the industry.

Can you explain why the government is so reluctant to support the industry?

I know that's tough question for you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes, it is a tough question.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

The minister has decided not to appear for this study, so....

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Go ahead, Ms. Taylor.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair; I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

My colleague Mr. Seeback's question is about the nuclear industry, whereas our work is about nuclear and radioactive waste.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

It's more on waste.

Ms. Taylor, that may not be a fair question, so we're not necessarily expecting—

[Mary Taylor]

I think that is a question that is not related to waste and would not be one that I'd be in a position to answer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Go ahead, Mr. Seeback. You have another shot at another question.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

I might try to come back to that at a later point.

One of the things that we're talking about here is whether the CNSC should report to the Minister of Environment as opposed to the Minister of Natural Resources. In your view, is there any [Technical difficulty—Editon] Parliament to the Minister of Natural Resources as opposed to the Minister of Environment?

[Mary Taylor]

That's a decision for the government to make, and it's not a decision for us as public servants to comment on. The structure has been established by the Government of Canada.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Mr. Chapman, would you say that the IAAC is an independent agency that produces objective and accurate reports on the impact of nuclear waste management projects?

[Steve Chapman]

Mr. Chair, as mentioned in my opening remarks, we haven't had a nuclear project enter into the impact assessment system, so I can't comment specifically on nuclear projects under the Impact Assessment Act at this point.

I would say that the agency reports to the Minister of Environment and Climate Change and produces advice based on the best science and evidence available.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Would you say that the advice that you provide is free and independent of influence, as an independent agency?

[Steve Chapman]

The advice that we provide, as I mentioned, Mr. Chair, is based on the best science and evidence and is free of influence, yes.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

I'd like to speak with Chief Michano.

I understand that you have concerns with respect to the storage of nuclear waste, and I can understand that. Do you see any way of storing nuclear waste safely, whether that's in a deep repository or on surface sites as it's being stored now?

[Chief Duncan Malcolm Michano]

I've answered that same question to the NWMO.

Stop making it, and then we'll talk about how we can store it.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Do you think there is a safe way to store it?