Environment Committee on March 3rd, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

The question is about—

[Chief Duncan Malcolm Michano]

The translation system is not working.

Oh, there it is.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

The question is about the resolutions that you referred to earlier.

What kinds of resolutions are they? I think that's the question.

[Chief Duncan Malcolm Michano]

Oh, yes, the resolutions dealt with a variety of issues. There was the production and the research around SMRs, the handling of waste, and also the production of nuclear waste through nuclear power.

When you look at those three resolutions, you see that they're asking to stop all of them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I believe, Chief Michano, at the bottom of your screen you can choose a language and then you'd get the interpretation.

[Chief Duncan Malcolm Michano]

Yes, I just turned it on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you so much.

You have the floor, Ms. Pauzé.

This has not been taken away from your speaking time.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I will continue to address you, Chief Michano.

What were the results after presenting this to the government bodies?

[Chief Duncan Malcolm Michano]

The resolution is basically to direct our leadership at the Nishnawbe Aski nation, at the Chiefs of Ontario and at the Assembly of First Nations to deal with those issues with the federal and provincial governments. That is what those resolutions do. It gives them the authority to deal with those issues.

As far as I'm aware, the Assembly of First Nations, the Chiefs of Ontario, or the Nishnawbe nations, and I believe the Iroquois as well, have not had any results from either the federal government or the provincial government.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Can you tell us, roughly, how many indigenous communities across Canada have expressed concerns about the development of small modular reactors and the criticism of radioactive waste management in Canada?

[Chief Duncan Malcolm Michano]

At the Assembly of First Nations, nationally there are 600 first nations. Not all of them are on board with this issue. There are some that oppose, of course, and some abstain.

At the Ontario level, I believe there are a little over 37 first nations that have signed on to those resolutions, though there are a lot of first nations in Ontario that oppose DGRs and SMRs and the creation of nuclear waste through nuclear power.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you, Chief Michano.

I'm going to take that as a starting point to direct my questions to Mr. Chapman.

Small modular reactors are exempt from the new Impact Assessment Act. Could we still ask for a regional assessment that could be done by a provincial government or an indigenous governance body?

After all, there are 140 municipalities that are concerned and have said no to the waste management facility at Chalk River, and we just learned that 37 indigenous communities in Ontario are affected by this project.

Could there be a regional assessment?

[Steve Chapman]

Mr. Chair, there are provisions in the Impact Assessment Act that allow the minister to designate individual projects that aren't described in a regulation to enter the impact assessment process. That is one mechanism the minister has to bring in projects that aren't described in regulation.

The committee member also asked about regional assessments. The minister has the authority under the Impact Assessment Act to look at regional assessments, or to create a regional assessment to look at issues that may be clustered in a particular geographic area.

For regional assessment to move forward, the minister would take into consideration factors like the influence that regional assessment may have on future projects, the contribution of the regional assessment to get a better understanding of what cumulative effects are under a fellow jurisdiction, and whether or not the regional assessment would be in the public interest to move forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You only have 10 seconds left, Ms. Pauzé.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Can you tell us which nuclear projects fall under the new law?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You are out of time, Ms. Pauzé.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

In that case, may I put my questions in writing to Mr. Chapman?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. Chapman, if you could respond to Ms. Pauzé's question in writing by sending a letter or email to the clerk, we would appreciate it.

I now turn the floor over to Ms. Collins.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Since we're starting a new panel, I want to mention again that it is disappointing that the Minister of Environment couldn't make time to appear at the committee for this important topic.

My first question is for Chief Michano.

We've heard a lot from industry representatives who have dismissed social concerns about nuclear waste disposal. I'd love to hear more about what you're hearing from the members of your community and their concerns about nuclear waste.

[Chief Duncan Malcolm Michano]

When the NWMO was doing consultations several years ago, we had huge demonstrations out on Highway 17 at White River. We had a huge demonstration out in Hornepayne. We had huge demonstrations at the Nipigon River Bridge. The first nations and our community members were there as well.

They were telling me in no uncertain terms that they didn't want any nuclear waste on our territory. In fact, we did a BCR here in the community. Council signed on to that BCR that we didn't want any nuclear waste in our traditional territory, and we didn't want nuclear waste in northern Ontario, period, because of the issues that I've cited.

Our first nations always talk about seven generations ahead, which you have to plan for. If you're leaving that toxic waste in the ground and then walking away from it, you're not thinking about those seven generations. You're leaving that waste for them to deal with.

It needs to stop being produced. That's the answer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You're on mute, Ms. Collins.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

My apologies.

Given that your territories are unceded lands, do you feel that you have received undue pressure from the nuclear industry to become a community host of nuclear waste?

[Chief Duncan Malcolm Michano]

No, I don't think so. I think they understood that we, at least at Biigtigong, were not going to do it. We also didn't accept any of their money. We told them—I'm not going to say anything about whether we told them about it—that we didn't want their money, because we looked at that as bribe money. That's what we called it, but anyway, the pressure wasn't there, because they knew that we were not going to do it and eventually they just walked away.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Okay.

Do you think there are ways that the NWMO or federal agencies can improve the relationship with your community?

[Chief Duncan Malcolm Michano]

Not with my community, I don't think, but maybe with some other communities, because we can see through their facade.