Environment Committee on March 3rd, 2022

[Chief Duncan Malcolm Michano]

I'm saying you stop making it, and we'll talk about how we can store it.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

In your view, there's no need for us to continue to use nuclear energy or indeed to expand nuclear energy.

[Chief Duncan Malcolm Michano]

There are lots of alternatives.

When you fly over northern Ontario, northern Quebec and northern Manitoba, all you see is water. There are a lot of opportunities for hydroelectric power generation in lieu of nuclear energy.

I fly over Toronto, and I see hundreds and thousands of roofs. Each one of those roofs should have solar panels on it. It would cut the power demand in half.

There are alternatives. You don't need to be producing the toxic waste that will be poisonous to our descendants for hundreds of thousands of years. They're going to have to deal with it.

Look at the amount of waste that we've produced in the last 60 years. What is it going to be like in another hundred years? What's it going to be like in another 500 years? What's it going to be like in a thousand years? Are we assuming that there are not going to be any people around to deal with that?

With first nations, we talk all the time about taking care of our descendants for seven generations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

We'll go to Mr. Weiler now.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I also want to thank our witnesses for joining us this evening for this important study.

I'd like to start my questioning with Mr. Chapman. You mentioned that there are no active reviews right now being done by the Impact Assessment Agency for nuclear waste projects. I'm curious: Are there any existing assessments that are being done under the precursor, the much less robust CEA 2012 Act, from which active reviews were grandfathered when the new Impact Assessment Act came into force?

[Steve Chapman]

Mr. Chair, there are active assessments ongoing for nuclear projects under CEA 2012, yes.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Okay, and at what stage of the reviews are those projects right now?

[Steve Chapman]

Because there are at least seven that I'm aware of, I would have to get back to the committee, Mr. Chair, on the status of each individual assessment.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Okay. We would appreciate it if you could provide that in writing.

You also talked about the physical activities regulations that trigger what projects are subject to a review by the IAA. Could you please explain what the thresholds are for nuclear fuel and waste storage and whether that would also capture waste that would be produced at the scale of SMRs?

[Steve Chapman]

Mr. Chair, our physical activities regulations are broken down by type of activity. You will find the sections related to nuclear facilities and the storage of nuclear waste in sections 26 to 29 of that regulation.

I believe the question was with respect to the thresholds. Each section of that regulation dictates a very specific threshold for various facilities, for either the production of nuclear energy or the storage.

If I could ask, Mr. Chair, just to have some precision on what threshold exactly the committee member would like me to speak to, I can provide that information.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

It's just for the actual storage for nuclear waste, not for the production, just for storage such that it would trigger an assessment.

[Steve Chapman]

In section 28, there is a provision for a new facility of storage of irradiated nuclear fuel or nuclear waste outside of licenced boundaries of a nuclear facility, and also a new facility for the long-term storage or disposal of irradiant nuclear waste or nuclear fuel. There's no threshold for that. Long-term storage of nuclear waste or nuclear fuels and entry for the irradiated nuclear fuel or nuclear waste into temporary or indeterminate storage, if it's outside of a new facility, would be captured by our regulation.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you.

You also mentioned the principle of one project, one assessment. I was hoping you could explain to this committee how this can be done without sacrificing the rigour of the separate reviews for nuclear waste.

[Steve Chapman]

Mr. Chair, because there are overlapping provisions in the Nuclear Safety and Control Act and the Impact Assessment Act, we've worked with the Nuclear Safety Commission to establish a memorandum of understanding on how we would conduct an assessment that would meet both the requirements of an Impact Assessment Act and the requirements under the Nuclear Safety and Control Act.

We would have an independent review panel appointed. The panel's function would also cover both the Nuclear Safety Control Act and the Impact Assessment Act. At the end of the day, that panel would produce a report for the Minister of Environment and Climate Change to make a decision on it. At the same time, that would also allow the Nuclear Safety Commission to use that same report to consider its licencing decisions.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you very much.

I'd now like to turn to Ms. Taylor from ECCC.

You mentioned that ECCC has participated in the ongoing review for the modernization of radioactive waste policy. As well, ECCC participates in the federal nuclear science technology committee that's looking at research on new technologies and processes for radioactive waste management.

I was hoping you could please give us a synopsis of ECCC's thinking of the risk of discharges to the natural environment from deep geological repositories of nuclear waste?

[Mary Taylor]

I think that question, of course, depends on the circumstances of each project.

When there is a project, we would be looking at the actual local physical characteristics, and then providing our advice on discharges. It's very difficult to speak in generalities, as each project has its own location with its own geological formations and its own information on water, so there isn't a general answer to that that I could provide.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Okay.

I'm going to change gears a little bit.

One of the acts that was recently tabled in the Senate is a modernization of one of the acts that ECCC is responsible for, the Canadian Environmental Protection Act. Of course, this deals with the risk of toxics to humans and the environment.

Has an assessment ever been done of radioactive waste, and if so, was it declared toxic under CEPA?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You have 15 seconds, so please be brief.

[Mary Taylor]

There has not been an assessment of radionuclides from waste material.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you so much.

We'll go to Madame Pauzé.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I would like to thank the witnesses who are with us late this evening.

My first question will be to you, Chief Michano.

Can you give us an idea of the resolutions that have been submitted by first nations to government bodies and what the results have been?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Go ahead.

[Chief Duncan Malcolm Michano]

I didn't understand the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Could you repeat your question, Ms. Pauzé?

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Yes.

What resolutions have been submitted by first nations to government bodies?