Environment Committee on Nov. 9th, 2023

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Pursuant to the Standing Orders, I move the following motion:

That, given that the Prime Minister's temporary and limited exemption to the carbon tax on home heating oil that does not apply to 97% of Canadians, and that this announcement exposes major inconsistencies in the federal carbon tax policy, and that the Liberal government voted against a Conservative motion to extend the same exemption to all forms of home heating in Canada, and that Canada's Premiers have issued a joint statement, that says, “Premiers expressed concern that federal actions around the federal carbon tax have treated Canadians differently and expect the federal government to support all Canadians fairly,”; and given the divisive statement made by the Minister of Rural Economic Development where she stated, in response to a televised interview question on whether the Liberals were considering carbon tax relief for Canadians outside of Atlantic Canada; “…perhaps they need to elect more Liberals in the Prairies so that we can have that conversation as well”, The committee: (a) Undertake a ten-meeting review of carbon tax policy in Canada given the Prime Minister's limited carbon tax exemption, calls from provinces and Canadians struggling with the affordability crisis to remove the federal carbon tax completely, and the committee hear from the Minister of the Environment and Climate Change for two hours, the Minister of Finance for two hours, the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources for two hours, the Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry for two hours, the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food for two hours and all other witnesses the committee deems relevant, that the committee extend existing meeting times by one-hour in order to prioritize this motion and that the committee report its findings to the House; (b) Urge the Minister of Rural Economic Development to appear for two hours on Tuesday, November 21, 2023, to explain her comments.

The purpose of this motion is to get to the bottom of things. From the reports that were tabled recently, we see that, although the carbon tax policy is this government's main focus, the government is not meeting its objectives and is always missing its targets. Whatever might be said, we need to get to the bottom of things and understand why this tax approach is not helping us to meet the environmental objectives that the government has set.

If we want to undertake a serious and rigorous review of the carbon tax, we need do to it here in committee.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Dan Mazier]

Thank you.

I have Mr. Kram next on the speaking list, then Mr. Leslie, Mr. van Koeverden and Ms. Roy.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank my colleague Mr. Deltell for moving this very important motion.

The Government of Canada is supposed to look out for the interests of all Canadians, regardless of where they live. That's true when it comes to environmental issues. That's true when it comes to taxation issues. That's true for any other issue.

When a minister of the Crown says publicly on television that she will not listen to the people of a particular region because of the party for which they voted in the previous election, that is very concerning. It raises the question—

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I believe that Mr. Kram is taking the minister's comments completely out of context. For the purpose of this motion, I question that relevance.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Dan Mazier]

He has the floor.

Go ahead.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Thanks, Mr. Chair. That was not really a point of order.

The minister's comments certainly are concerning, and they raise the question: What other government policies are enacted solely based on how a particular region voted in the previous election?

I think that it is very reasonable to invite Minister Hutchings to the committee to explain her comments.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Dan Mazier]

Mr. Leslie, you have the floor.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think it's a timely motion, given the testimony we were just hearing from the commissioner on the—

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I was watching the order of the hands go up, and—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Dan Mazier]

That's debate. We have the order. I announced it. I saw everybody—

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

I'm not challenging that.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Dan Mazier]

You'll have your time.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

I'm challenging the order. I saw Mr. van Koeverden's hand go up at the same time as Mr. Kram's.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Dan Mazier]

We have it here. We have two lists, and both correspond.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Perhaps you were looking to that side and not this side.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Dan Mazier]

I'm not going to call the clerk into question. We're both here. That's why there are two of us here. We're watching the whole table.

On you go, Mr. Leslie.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As I was saying, I think it's a very timely motion to bring forward. Just last week, we had the Governor of the Bank of Canada admit that the carbon tax is responsible for 16% of our total food inflation in this country. As my colleague—

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, it's 0.6%.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Dan Mazier]

That's not a point of order.

[A voice]

It doesn't matter.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Dan Mazier]

It matters a lot, actually. Points of order are supposed to be points of order, not debate, so it does matter a lot.

Go ahead, Mr. Leslie.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

As I was saying, and as my colleague just mentioned, not often are the premiers in this country all aligned, but they are all aligned right now in their disdain for the federal government's picking and choosing people in certain parts of the country for political reasons, to give them a break on the carbon tax. When the minister has the gall to say that if the people in the Prairies want to get considered for a pause, perhaps they should have elected more Liberals, it is galling. She has been awfully quiet since then.

It is a perfect opportunity to bring her and several other ministers before this committee to discuss the entirety of the policy, particularly given the evidence provided by the environment commissioner with respect to the lack of reliability and transparency in the economic and emissions modelling.

It is time we held the decision-makers of this policy to account, and it is time to have those who have been dividing Canadians time and time again come before the committee. I hope all members will pass this motion today.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Dan Mazier]

Thank you, Mr. Leslie.

Mr. van Koeverden, you have the floor.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I move to adjourn debate on this motion.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Dan Mazier]

We will vote right away.

(Motion negatived)

Continuing, Mr. Leslie, you have 15 seconds left. I'm guessing that you handed it over to Mr. Deltell.

Mr. Deltell, you have 15 seconds left, if you want them.