Environment Committee on Jan. 30th, 2024

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

I can't use the actual quote from the newspaper in committee?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

No props. No props, that's correct.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

I've had props before.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I don't know where.

Anyway, is that your point of order, Ms. Collins?

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

My point of order was that I was hoping the Conservative member would put down the prop, and also, I was curious about whether he was feeling a bit ashamed about these kinds of tactics.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

It is a prop. It's clearly been produced for the purpose of showing it off.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

That's okay. I'll start over.

I guess it is ridiculous that we have to actually mention this. I will clarify what's going on here, because everybody's saying this is not actually factual.

The headline in the Montreal Gazette reads, “Federal agency sizing up air pollution from bagel shops and pizzerias”. Another quote is, “a federally-run agency is considering forcing wood-burning businesses to report emissions.”

We have a cost of living crisis. People can't afford homes. There is a wave of crime on the streets and this Liberal government is focused on bagel shops and wood-fired ovens. Regulate, tax and plan. That's the approach of this Liberal government. These aren't just my words.

Here's a statement from the environment minister's own department. The national pollutant release inventory program “has recently undertaken compliance promotion activities targeting some wood-fired ovens such as pizzerias and bagel shops across Canada.” This came—

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Why are we focusing on this?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Order. Mr. Mazier has the floor. He can speak as long as he wants.

Go ahead, Mr. Mazier.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

This came right from ECCC. Imagine you're a small pizzeria and bagel shop owner. They're probably thinking that they're thankful that they got through COVID and things are improving. Then they get an email from the Liberal government wanting to know how many emissions are coming out of their wood-fired oven.

We just learned that the Liberal government doesn't measure annual emissions reduced from their carbon tax, but the Liberals expect pizzerias to know how many emissions come from their ovens. It's absolutely ridiculous. Small businesses can't afford this government's high-priced consultant.

This is such an embarrassing issue for the government that I expect they will try to shut down debate on this motion. They love shutting down debate on issues they don't want to talk about.

If the government is truly opposed to a wood-fired oven ban, then they would have no problem supporting this motion.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We'll go to Mr. van Koeverden.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm not surprised. I'm just disappointed, actually, that the Conservatives are amplifying conspiracy theories once again. The only member of Parliament or official from any level of government associated with this committee or any other one who has visited a bagel shop to take photos and to do that is Mr. Mazier. He did that for his social media channels to promote this as his—

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Would you have a bagel?

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

I have bagels all the time. I love bagels. St-Viateur and Kettlemans are both great bagel shops.

However, those members are interrupting this committee to spread misinformation, and they are wasting our witnesses' time, as they do all of the time. Conservatives are the only ones calling this out, because it's a conspiracy theory that's cooked up and baked up by Pierre Poilievre.

There have been no ECCC in-person inspections of wood-fired pizza and bagel shops. There are lots of articles from clean air advocates talking about some of the more industrial-sized ones that are causing air quality issues in various communities. The NPRI does not set emission reduction targets. Its goal is to promote awareness and enhance the understanding of pollution in communities across Canada through annual reporting.

Either the member doesn't understand how Canada's national pollutant release inventory works, which would be problematic if you're going to do this much work on it and do social media on it, or he knows it's false, and he's going to promote it anyway for clicks and for attention. This is unfortunately something that we've come to expect from the Conservatives, particularly this one.

It's atrocious that the Conservatives continue to bring conspiracy theories to this committee and waste our witnesses' time.

For that reason, I'm happy to debate it when we have time for that, but right now we have witnesses here. I would move to adjourn debate on this silly motion.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We have to vote on the motion first.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Very well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We will now move on to the vote.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 7; nays 4) [See Minutes])

We'll go to Ms. Chatel.

You have six minutes, please.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I was very pleased to hear what the witnesses had to say today.

I, too, think there’s a great vision emerging for agriculture in Canada. We live in a world where drought is going to happen everywhere on a global scale.

In fact, I was looking at the latest statistics and predictions for the southwestern United States. Droughts will continue to occur. Agriculture in Canada is going to be a pillar of the Canadian economy, and it will also be a pillar on the humanitarian front to feed the world. To do so, we need water, and we clearly need to protect it. Not only is water a resource, but, as we heard in the various testimonies, it’s also a precious asset, and we really need to protect it.

In this context, as my colleague Mr. Kram was saying earlier, we set up the Canadian Water Agency to try to bring a vision to Canada.

Mr. Jaques, you’re part of an agency with experience in management, particularly at different levels of government.

Based on your experience, can you share your recommendations to the Canadian Water Agency on how to work with provinces, Indigenous peoples and other organizations like yours?

[Shawn Jaques]

Maybe I'll start, and I'll have Mr. Cooper add to it.

When I think of the Canada water agency, we've had limited interactions. We had a couple of early meetings when they were looking at establishing it at the official level, and we and some of the neighbouring provinces spent some time talking about what the role would look like and making sure.... Like I said, in Saskatchewan we're doing all that regulatory type of work, and we don't want to see any duplication of services because it doesn't make sense.

In Saskatchewan we sit on a board with Manitoba and Alberta, the Prairie Provinces Water Board, which manages water that flows through each of our provinces. We work collaboratively. We also sit on some international boards where we work with our neighbours to the south on making sure apportionment agreements are met. I think that in Saskatchewan, with our agency, we already have a good working relationship with those we need to collaborate with.

We do a lot of work in our day-to-day operations in our province with first nations. There are some examples where we've transferred some water bodies to different first nations in their treaty land entitlement process. Where there were some economic opportunities they had, we worked with them on that on land that we own, so I think we're doing that right now.

I don't know if there's anything you want to add, David.

I go back to the comment I made—I think Mr. Kram asked the question—that if there's some opportunity to help with funding in different types of projects, I think that's a space in which the Canada water agency can play a role. If there's some support they can provide and maybe some research, that's also a place, but I think that duplicating work that provinces are doing wouldn't be helpful.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you.

We welcomed Mr. Tyler McCann, from the Canadian Agri-Food Policy Institute. Mr. McCann, incidentally, lives in the riding I represent, Pontiac.

According to him, we need a national action plan for water in agri-food, and he presented us with one. As you said, we need more data on water use, as well as on maximizing and protecting water in agriculture. Mr. McCann was also referring to a lack of data.

Could the Canadian Water Agency take on this role?

[Shawn Jaques]

Yes, I suppose there could be. Again, I can't speak for other jurisdictions, but I know that in our own province we capture that data. We have a number of monitoring stations on the major rivers that flow in and out of our province, so we know how much water is coming in. We work with irrigators. We work with communities or industries that are using our water to monitor what they are using. There could be a role they can play, but we're already capturing some of that.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Do you have [inaudible]…

[Shawn Jaques]

I'm sorry. It didn't translate.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

I beg your pardon.

Do you have that data on agriculture or the use of water in agriculture, more specifically?