Evidence of meeting #44 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pollution.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Rochman  Associate Professor, University of Toronto, As an Individual
Scott Thurlow  Senior Advisor, Government Affairs, Dow Canada
Ross  Senior Scientist, Raincoast Conservation Foundation
Moffatt  President and Chief Executive Officer, Chemistry Industry Association of Canada
Wirsig  Senior Program Manager, Plastics, Environmental Defence Canada
Merante  Senior Plastics Campaigner, Oceana Canada

12:50 p.m.

Senior Plastics Campaigner, Oceana Canada

Anthony Merante

We saw that 83% of Canadians supported the single-use plastic ban. That is 18 months after it came into effect. That is after Canadians saw plastic pollution being reduced in their neighbourhoods. It was very affirming that this was the correct choice. Canadians felt that way. We showed, through unbiased polling, that this was the feeling across Canada. The highest support came from Quebec, with the lowest support—and when I say lowest, I mean 75% still in favour—coming from Alberta.

Eric St-Pierre Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

Thank you. We look forward to seeing that survey.

Mr. Merante, in 2023, Oceana also released a report entitled, “Breaking the Plastic Cycle: A Policy Roadmap to Eliminate One-Third of Canada's Plastic Packaging Waste.”

Can you table that report with the committee?

Can you also summarize that report? Why is it important?

12:55 p.m.

Senior Plastics Campaigner, Oceana Canada

Anthony Merante

It is available in English and French, so I can share it after this.

The main findings showed that over half of Canada's plastic pollution came from single-use plastics. The major sources of that single-use plastic pollution came from Horeca, which is a common term for hospitality, restaurants and catering. Major retail and grocery outlets, beverage bottlers and e-commerce were huge sources there.

I think the federal government was right to start moving on single-use plastics in those sectors, but the federal government, with the knowledge at the time, targeted products, as other countries and jurisdictions did. Now we have learned that through CEPA you can actually have more wide-ranging definitions of single-use plastics. The federal government could expand the ban to include all on-site food and beverage orders. It could require reuse at places like major sporting and entertainment venues. It can expand its definition.

I look forward to the Supreme Court of Canada settling this and maybe having a federal government approach that's more comprehensive and less product-based.

Eric St-Pierre Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

Ms. Wirsig, why is there so much opposition to banning single-use plastic products?

Who do you think is behind this opposition?

12:55 p.m.

Senior Program Manager, Plastics, Environmental Defence Canada

Karen Wirsig

Opposition isn't widespread. It comes particularly from the Canadian and American plastic production industry.

This opposition probably serves to strengthen this industry without considering alternatives. There’s an American company that produces glass in Montreal and Brampton, near Toronto. A lot more jobs could be created in those two regions if more glass products were being used. They can be reused 15 times or 66 times, so, many times.

The plastics industry is trying to protect its profits, but we're trying to protect the environment. That's more or less the difference.

Eric St-Pierre Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

I'll ask one more question, because I have 30 seconds left.

Ms. Wirsig, can you name any Canadian organization that supports federal action to ban the sale of single-use plastics in this country?

Can you answer in 15 seconds?

12:55 p.m.

Senior Program Manager, Plastics, Environmental Defence Canada

Karen Wirsig

I have a document on that, but it's only in English at the moment.

Eric St-Pierre Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

Can you send it to the committee?

12:55 p.m.

Senior Program Manager, Plastics, Environmental Defence Canada

Karen Wirsig

Yes, I'll send it in. To date, 52 companies have signed a document in favour of maintaining the bans on single-use plastic products and increasing the number of products covered by these bans, among other things.

Eric St-Pierre Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

Thank you.

The Chair Liberal Shannon Miedema

Thank you, Mr. St‑Pierre.

Mr. Bonin, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Along the same lines, can you also send us documentation on the adverse health effects of these products?

We won't have time to talk about this, but if you have any documentation to send us, we would appreciate it.

Mr. Merante, your colleague talked about American interests.

Do you think Canada decided to lift the ban on exporting single-use plastics to please American interests from the oil and gas lobby and the petrochemical lobby?

12:55 p.m.

Senior Plastics Campaigner, Oceana Canada

Anthony Merante

I do think that direct question would have to go to the minister or the Prime Minister's Office. What I can say—

Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC

I'm asking you.

12:55 p.m.

Senior Plastics Campaigner, Oceana Canada

Anthony Merante

I wouldn't be in a place to answer that directly. What I can say is that in the courts, when it has gone to the Federal Court of Appeal and the federal Supreme Court, American petrochemical companies and the American Chemistry Council have been involved in it and have shown an interest in dialing back our plastic regulation in Canada.

Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC

You talked about California and New York. You're saying that not everyone in the U.S. is against the idea of more measures.

Could you send us some examples from elsewhere in the world, so we can have a picture that includes more than just Mr. Trump? I'm thinking of Europe and France.

I'm going to give the minute I have left to my colleague from the Green Party.

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

I'm going to put my questions to Ms. Wirsig, and I really wish I had time for everybody.

I want to try to drill down on what's been raised about food waste and how we'd have more food waste if we didn't have single-use plastics and food contamination affecting our health.

I quickly looked it up. North America, with lots of access to plastics for food, wastes between 95 and 115 kilograms of food per capita, whereas places that don't use plastic, sub-Saharan Africa and Southeast Asia, waste far less food, six to 11 kilograms a year.

From your point of view, Ms. Wirsig, is there a plausible case that we need plastics to avoid food waste?

1 p.m.

Senior Program Manager, Plastics, Environmental Defence Canada

Karen Wirsig

No, there is no global evidence to suggest that we need plastics to avoid all food waste. Plastics may be useful in certain cases. Why not use reusable plastics instead of single-use plastics where plastic is a good thing for meat, for example?

We know there's evidence that plastic contributes to food waste. Have you ever been to the store and bought five peppers instead of the two you needed for your recipe because there wasn't any other option? Three go bad in your fridge. There is no single answer to this question.

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

I can't pose the second part.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

1 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shannon Miedema

Time is up.

We'll now turn to Mr. Leslie for five minutes.

1 p.m.

Conservative

Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Wirsig, I'll continue on the path of food waste.

Transportation and the lightness of plastic were mentioned. You mentioned the difficulty in recycling some of these products and allegations that perhaps they are not useful in food waste prevention.

The government did consult on this idea not too long ago that we should be banning single-use plastics from grocery stores, including in food products. Should we be doing that?

1 p.m.

Senior Program Manager, Plastics, Environmental Defence Canada

Karen Wirsig

The government did not consult on banning single-use plastics from grocery stores. The government consulted on a pollution prevention program that would have required grocery stores to develop a plan to reduce plastics in their supply chains. They could have adopted a number of different measures with the goal of reducing waste, which we believe is a priority those grocers share. There was no ban. There is no ban ability through that P2 plan of grocery stores that I think was mentioned earlier.

1 p.m.

Conservative

Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Should there be? Is that the approach the government should take?

1 p.m.

Senior Program Manager, Plastics, Environmental Defence Canada

Karen Wirsig

I think certain nuisance plastics should be banned from grocery stores, and I think you would have the support of grocers and the support of recyclers to ban nuisance plastics that get in the way of collecting, sorting and recycling other materials. I think Dr. Rochman mentioned earlier that produce bags are a purely nuisance thing. I know that at least one big grocery chain has tried to get rid of them without success because others continue to use them.

1 p.m.

Conservative

Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Thank you.

I'd like to switch over to Mr. Moffatt on that, because I appreciate the bag piece.

There's a story that came out a couple of years ago out of a Calgary-specific co-op that developed a 100% compostable checkout bag that they later had to pull from the shelves because the minister refused to change the rules that they had put in place on the ban. This makes absolutely no sense. This was a bag that would be able to be composted. It was innovation.

Mr. Moffatt, does it make sense to punish a company that was trying to solve the plastics waste problem such as in this example?