Evidence of meeting #44 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pollution.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I will give my final minute of speaking time to my Green Party colleague.
Mr. Thurlow, we were discussing greenhouse gas emissions.
What is the total amount of greenhouse gas emissions generated over the entire life cycle—not just those generated during oil and gas production?
Senior Advisor, Government Affairs, Dow Canada
I will undertake to look for that. It's going to depend on the geography as well.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
You can provide us with this information in writing. That would be most kind of you.
Ms. Rochman, you have many recommendations on how to take further action to tackle plastic pollution, particularly through regulations.
Could you tell the committee what other steps you believe would help strengthen Canada's strategy? I would ask Mr. Ross to do the same.
Do you find it contradictory that the government talks about protecting nature, yet is backtracking on the fight against plastic pollution?
Do you think this is consistent behaviour from the government?
Associate Professor, University of Toronto, As an Individual
The translation is very quiet. I'm sorry.
Did you say that the government really wants to protect nature and you're worried that we're going backwards on it? Is that the question?
Associate Professor, University of Toronto, As an Individual
On plastic pollution, yes, I think Canada was a really large leader in this space when we started taking it seriously around 2019, and you could say 2017, with the microbead ban. We were moving forward on so many things, including recycled content standards.
We are at risk of going backwards, and I don't think that right now we have a reason to do it. We haven't solved the problem. The amount of plastic I see in Lake Ontario just in walking the shoreline is astounding.
Green
Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Dr. Ross, obviously a lot of us got involved in trying to get rid of single-use plastics because we saw it choking the life out of wildlife, but I'm really quite concerned about microplastics entering the human body and the health effects of that.
You mentioned landfills. Could you briefly touch on microplastics in human health and what you're finding in landfills? For instance, is there any sign of the forever chemicals, the PFAS?
Senior Scientist, Raincoast Conservation Foundation
That's a great series of questions.
We are concerned about microplastics in human health and particularly the nanoplastics that can freely pass the GI tract barrier and even the blood-brain barrier. We are concerned about very small particles of plastic.
If I may, I will recall my comment about how all plastics today will “not break down chemically” in the future. They will “break“ down “into smaller and smaller pieces,” such that all plastics are a “reservoir” for potential human health risks. Think about a plastic bottle today. In 1,000 years, it might be a million pieces of plastic. We're very worried about that.
I think my time is up, but I believe you had a second question.
Senior Scientist, Raincoast Conservation Foundation
Yes, on PFAS, we are detecting per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances. These are forever chemicals. There are 15,000 of them. We only have the analytical methods to measure 44 of them.
It's a very complex family. It's the old Teflon Scotchgard family of chemicals. The shorter-chain versions are found in airport aqueous firefighting foams and other products. Some are stain repellents and water repellents. They are forever chemicals.
Like plastics, they are found in landfills. They're leaching out of landfills. They're contaminating groundwater supplies. I find them in drinking water supplies in British Columbia.
Conservative
Ellis Ross Conservative Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, witnesses, for your testimony.
I am indigenous. I come from Kitamaat Village, B.C. I appreciate the comments saying that you'll look for indigenous knowledge, but to be clear, indigenous people use plastics just as much as non-indigenous people do. It's an affordability issue, and it's a safety issue when we're talking about food packaging. We've been struggling for answers to the same questions that you're posing today in terms of the marine environment, for example, for rivers and oceans. I do eat seafood four times a week still.
In saying that and in talking about affordability and the safety of food packaging that plastics provide, this question is for Ms. Rochman. Should the federal government ban single-use plastics used in food packaging and in grocery stores?
Associate Professor, University of Toronto, As an Individual
I don't have a good answer to that. I don't necessarily think we know enough to do that. I think the answer is that it depends. For certain food items where a box is just as good at keeping the product viable for a long time—
Associate Professor, University of Toronto, As an Individual
For meat, I think it would be very hard to get away from plastic, not unless we're going to a butcher regularly and we're getting it wrapped in paper and having it handed to us.
Conservative
Ellis Ross Conservative Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
I see.
Has the federal government indicated any openness to a ban of single-use plastics in grocery stores?
Associate Professor, University of Toronto, As an Individual
I haven't seen any.
Actually, we had a project in grocery stores for a bit. We were more focused on the produce bags that you can choose to take or not take. I will note that there is a pollution prevention plan for grocery stores, but I think it's been unpopular. There has been a pollution prevention plan for grocery stores to try to get them to reduce their plastics where they can.
Conservative
Ellis Ross Conservative Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thank you.
Mr. Ross, I was intrigued by your comments about the content and how it's ending up in our environment. To my understanding, what you said is that we're all polluters, including every one of us who wears a suit. Each one of us has synthetic fibres that are working their way into our environment every time we wash our clothes. I have never heard that before.
Canada is at least trying. They're trying, and I'll give you an example of synthetic fibres in tires. B.C. is trying to regulate this, and they're doing a pretty good job, but 15% of every tire makes it into our environment. It's regulated so that we know exactly what's in a tire and we know exactly what's getting into the environment.
Unfortunately, that does not speak to other countries that use loopholes to get commercial tires into our market in B.C. We don't know what's in those tires coming from China, for example. As an option, what B.C. is considering is higher fees for British Columbians, who obey the rules, to cover the costs of these single-use tires coming in from China.
Is there anything that Canada can do to help persuade the provinces not to import and other countries not to export products that don't abide by our environmental regulations?
Senior Scientist, Raincoast Conservation Foundation
Absolutely. I believe very strongly in the power of trade agreements. I believe in the power of CEPA and other pieces of relevant legislation and other treaties globally that prevent pollutants or harmful substances from getting into the Canadian economy. For example, we are not allowed to import PCBs into Canada or manufacture them or dispose of them.
Conservative
Ellis Ross Conservative Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
How does the government square this? Canadians want to do good by the environment. They are recycling their tires. They are bringing them to approved facilities, and yet there's a huge amount of single-use tires coming from China that can't be recycled. We don't know what's in those tires. Basically, somehow they're not even being recycled. They're ending up in our landfills. Canadians have to foot the bill for this.
I think this is important right now. The federal government is talking about a new trade agreement with China, and yet they haven't resolved the environmental impact of these single-use tires ending up in our Canadian environment.
Senior Scientist, Raincoast Conservation Foundation
I think that's a great example. In fact, a lot of tires are not only ending up in landfills; they're ending up being recycled and put onto our children's playing fields. They have harmful chemicals, a lot of them proprietary. I would go back to my point about labelling. There are something like 600 chemicals in tires for which there is no public information.
Conservative
Ellis Ross Conservative Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
In terms of a single-use product coming from China, that's a tire that can't be recycled. We don't know the content, and everybody's turning a blind eye to it. How do we address that as Canadians? How do we get the federal government and the provincial governments to actually take it seriously?
Senior Scientist, Raincoast Conservation Foundation
We require labelling on that imported product, so the proprietary components of that tire are made known to the authorities in Environment Canada—
