I think this is much more sophisticated, I would say, than the federal government in that public utilities that run demand-side management programs have all their programs evaluated after the fact and are compared with basically the cost of power plants and transmission lines. The data back from that is that saving kilowatt hours of electricity costs about three cents to six cents a kilowatt hour through most programs, as compared with power plants, which can cost 13¢ or more a kilowatt hour.
The other thing that is often measured, and is hard to measure but is very important, is what we call non-energy benefits, such as benefits to health, benefits to productivity—