Environment Committee on Oct. 20th, 2026

[Will Greaves, Liberal, Victoria, BC]

Okay, I appreciate that. Thank you.

An earlier question essentially identified household energy savings as the only factor worth considering here. I would quibble with that. I don't think that's accurate in any way. Obviously, government can try to achieve multiple policy goals at one time. Household energy affordability is an important one, but the government is also focused on emissions reductions, and we also have questions about energy security and reliability.

I don't mean the international dimensions of energy security. I mean home heating fuels that have to be transported to the home. Especially if we're talking about extreme winter weather, storms and so on, there's going to be the risk of disruption to those supplies. I'm wondering if you could speak to that. In those cold temperature areas where a heat pump may not be sufficient to keep homes at a comfortable temperature, are there concerns about the reliability of propane supplies to those homes to keep them refuelled, given the weather that they'd likely be dealing with at that time?

That could go to Ms. Watt or Mr. Daley.

[Shannon Watt]

The propane industry very much cares about their customers. There's a lot of automation and monitoring of those tanks that already happens. I have heard numerous stories of how members will go out of their way to ensure that your tank is full and that you are not going to be cold at night.

Yes, there is a delivery piece to this, but there's a real dedication from our industry. They know that a warm customer is a happy customer, and to the nth degree, they will make sure that's the case.

[Will Greaves, Liberal, Victoria, BC]

That's great. Thank you.

I'd like to stay with you, Ms. Watt, if I may. I'd love to hear more about what you described as renewable propane. I'd love to hear a little bit about the amount of propane in Canada that is renewable versus non-renewable, what that growth trajectory looks like and any major issues that you would flag in terms of the transition towards a lower-emitting source of propane in your sector.

[Shannon Watt]

Renewable propane is a really interesting area that we'd love to see grow and get bigger. One of the barriers is the fact that not a lot of programs support renewable propane. They support renewable diesel. They support ethanol. Renewable propane gets lost in the mix, but if you are making renewable diesel, you are making renewable propane. In the same way you're doing diesel or natural gas now, you're making propane. It tends to be a co-product in the process.

We're finding that more and more industries and more and more of our members are making renewable propane and putting it into their own propane, reducing their carbon intensities by 10% or 15%. Right now it's a small drop in the bucket. We'd love to see that grow. In fact, we'd love to see an approach where smaller family-owned businesses could actually get involved and have renewable propane. Often they need that incentive. They need a level playing field, I would say, with other biofuels that are already out there.

There has certainly been interest in trying to provide more. In fact, if you were on the canal last year during Winterlude and you had yourself a BeaverTail, that BeaverTail was cooked and kept warm with renewable propane.

[Will Greaves, Liberal, Victoria, BC]

I mean, when you're speaking BeaverTails, you're speaking directly to my heart.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Will Greaves, Liberal, Victoria, BC]

I appreciate that. Thank you.

Could you also just touch briefly on—

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

I'm sorry. You're out of time.

[Will Greaves, Liberal, Victoria, BC]

Oh, too bad.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

Mr. Bonin, you have two and a half minutes.

[Patrick Bonin, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Ms. Demers, you say that you want to reinstate the Canada greener homes loan program, if I am not mistaken.

Could you explain why it would be important to reinstate this program?

[Isabelle Demers]

Firstly, one of the problems with the various existing programs, whether in Quebec or at federal level, is that they often have very specific eligibility or usage criteria.

What we recommend is looking at the building as a whole when it comes to renovation. If we look at the building as a whole, sometimes the problem concerns waterproofing, for example, or water ingress, or the doors and windows. We need a certain degree of flexibility to be able to take action where necessary. Not every building or structure necessarily has the same requirements. Nor were they all built at the same time, so they do not necessarily involve the same technologies. The costs are not the same either. So, programs must be reviewed with this in mind as well.

There are some programs that are very specific, which may simplify their use, but they certainly do not allow for scalability, because the requirements are different. Particularly when it comes to weatherproofing: if it is a semi-detached house, the work required is not the same as for a block of flats or a detached house. The work that needs to be carried out is not necessarily the same.

So, we would like the programs to be more flexible in order to meet actual needs. We must focus on the objective of energy efficiency, rather than the process of achieving it.

[Patrick Bonin, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

What impact has the withdrawal of the Canada greener homes loan program had on expertise or on businesses working in this field, for example?

[Isabelle Demers]

What we can see is that there is a trend showing that construction or renovation contractors who have developed expertise in energy-efficient renovation or building resilience are in high demand, because they are familiar not only with the programs but also with the terminology, and they are able to find the right solutions for the right buildings.

There is certainly a need to increase the number of contractors who possess this knowledge and these skills. There are, of course, many contractors who have not yet necessarily realized the benefits of moving forward and making use of these programs, as they are not familiar with them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bonin.

We'll now turn to Mr. Leslie for five minutes, please.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Demers, my colleague Mr. Greaves has stated that the government has many policies in place that are aimed at reducing emissions. In fact, I assume you'd be pleased to know that home energy efficiency is part of the government's emissions plan. Are you aware of that? Were you also aware that the government, a little over five years ago, passed something called the Canadian Net-Zero Emissions Accountability Act?

I have tried to move this motion on two occasions, because the act is up for review after the five-year statutory period.

Madam Chair, I'd like to begin by putting on notice the following motion:

That, pursuant to Section 27.1 of the Canadian Net-Zero Emissions Accountability Act, the committee undertake a comprehensive review of the Act and its effectiveness; that the study consist of four meetings, including one hour with the Minister of the Environment, Climate Change and Nature; and that the committee report its findings and recommendations to the House.

Moving back, I am hopeful that perhaps you would be interested in appearing as a witness on that important study, the review of whether or not the intended accountability of the Canadian Net-Zero Emissions Accountability Act has actually been achieved. Given that I've already tried twice and that I've used a little bit different wording this time, we'll see if the government is willing to bring forward the minister and witnesses to discuss that very important issue.

Ms. Demers, going back to the heat pump program you outlined in your opening remarks, the announced process has homeowners purchasing and installing the heat pump before submitting receipts for approval. For a family that doesn't have any savings—and increasingly we see statistically that there are many families who are on the brink of bankruptcy if they are faced with a substantial cost to their lives—that could prevent them from accessing such a rebate.

Should advance payments or direct payment to installers be available so that the households needing the most help can actually participate in the program?

[Isabelle Demers]

There are two things. I have to say that wasted energy always costs much more than renovations. If we look at it that way, whenever we help a family in Canada to renovate their house—

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

I'm sorry. This is specifically on the heat pump program.

[Isabelle Demers]

The heat pump program is a start. It's the easiest way to start some energy savings or energy efficiencies. It's a start.

Is it the end? It shouldn't be the end. Should we help all the families that want to get on board this program? Yes, because this will help to achieve less wastage than we now have in terms of energy.

That being said, many families are not homeowners, so they are not the ones who are deciding whether or not they will go ahead with the program.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

I appreciate that you mentioned that. As I was saying in an earlier question regarding your Quebec budget submission asking for renovation subsidies and fast recovery of landlords' investments through rent increases, I think that's an important problem here.

Some renters are going to be paying their bills separately. If there's a renovation of some sort or if a heat pump is placed in the unit that you're renting, there should be a clear benefit, because the total electricity cost should be decreased. However, many people who are renting are paying a whole, all-encompassing rent. How do you protect those renters so that they actually receive the benefits accrued by a landlord going through a taxpayer-funded program?

[Isabelle Demers]

This is why we need a specific program that is tailored to the needs of the landlord. We could then make sure that at the end of the day, if they benefit from renovating the buildings, we all benefit from having a more efficient system because we don't waste so much energy and we can use it elsewhere. This program should make sure and should be tailored in a way that the renters will not be paying the bill at the end.

Again, this is why programs such as the PACE program are great ways to look at how we make sure that we renovate buildings without directly affecting the people, because the loan is on the building and not on the person. This is why this program is a very efficient program that should be tailored and looked at so that it can be adapted to landlords, for instance.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you.

I'll cede the rest of my time to my colleague.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

You have four seconds.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

For the last five minutes, we'll turn to Mr. Grant, please.