Information & Ethics Committee on Nov. 6th, 2006

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Mr. Martin.

Go ahead, Ms. Stronach.

[Belinda Stronach, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

In your presentation you talk about establishing an internal audit function. Can you explain how that would work?

[J. Alan Leadbeater]

Yes. Our office being as small as we are, we've never had, in 23 years, an internal audit function. We are audited annually by the Auditor General; our financial statements are audited.

All officers of Parliament got together and decided that in keeping with the new internal audit policy of the Government of Canada, which is to try to have a better, more professional audit system within government institutions, we too would try to have a system that both reflected our level of risk, which is fairly low because of having audited financial statements, and the size of our budget.

So we will build an internal audit function that relies heavily on consultants--outside auditors--to come in and advise the Information Commissioner on an annual basis. We'll have an audit committee that has external members. By that means, we hope to make sure that we can demonstrate to the public and to Parliament that we are good stewards of the funds you give us.

[Belinda Stronach, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

So am I correct in hearing that the internal audit group will report to the external audit committee? What if there is a disagreement between what the internal audit committee recommends and what you feel is appropriate?

[J. Alan Leadbeater]

Well, because it is “internal”, the decision of the head will sway the day. But we have made a commitment that all internal audit reports will be public so that any disagreement will at least be public and available for discussion publicly.

[Belinda Stronach, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

That concludes the second round.

The chairman has some questions.

You made some comments, Mr. Leadbeater, about the operation of the advisory panel, and you had two items of criticism. One was that it's being held in camera, and the other was with respect to the timing.

Are you able to tell us what happened in that advisory committee if it was held in camera?

[J. Alan Leadbeater]

Well, they issued a decision to us, so I can tell you what's in the decision. I don't think, because the committee is ad hoc and is not governed by a standing order of the House, that an in camera session really means the same as an in camera session in this committee.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I know that. We've spent some time on this with the Ethics Commissioner, and it probably doesn't mean anything.

However, you're right that this committee opposed this proposal. Originally you went cap in hand to the Treasury Board—which was Mr. Reid's main criticism—and there is the suggestion that if you happened to be questioning or challenging the Treasury Board, that might prejudice your application for funds. I seem to recall that was a major concern. But it really still exists, doesn't it?

[J. Alan Leadbeater]

Yes, it does.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

What I'm interested in is the process. How many meetings did you have with the advisory panel?

[J. Alan Leadbeater]

I believe we met twice. At one of the meetings the Information Commissioner appeared and at the other the Privacy Commissioner appeared. And the Treasury Board—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

So the Information Commission appeared once.

[J. Alan Leadbeater]

We appeared once to make our case. At the same meeting the Treasury Board officials were also witnesses, along with the officials from the Office of the Information Commissioner.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

And how long did that meeting last?

[J. Alan Leadbeater]

My recollection is that it lasted approximately an hour and a half.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Okay.

And this advisory panel was an all-party panel?

[J. Alan Leadbeater]

Yes.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Now, on the issue of this backlog, if I recall correctly, Commissioner Reid came here in the last session and was concerned about the backlog and about requiring more funding. I think you had been rejected for $400,000. You can correct me if my memory is faulty.

[J. Alan Leadbeater]

Yes, that's in part III of the estimates.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

And then you got $400,000 this year. This year you got $400,000?

[J. Alan Leadbeater]

Yes, we received money this year, a total of $2.8 million.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I know, but this was specifically for the backlog issue. Correct?

[J. Alan Leadbeater]

If you look at the chart at tab 4, you'll see that in the 2005-06 main estimates we had funding for the backlog in 2005-06 only.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

What item is that?

Oh, I see, it's number 2.