Information & Ethics Committee on April 26th, 2007

[Robert Marleau]

We anticipate we will need three or four. We could be wrong on that, because a lot of new organizations out there are staring at the statute for the first time, so there may be a bit of a bulge. But once they get up to speed, we're probably looking at the same kind of curve as we had in the past. That's our anticipation.

[J. Alan Leadbeater]

Can I just jump in here, in case you're giving away the shop, Commissioner?

On the reason you're not seeing it this year, Mr. Tilson, there are 16 people we won't be able to hire until August, and we think that the salaries for 16 people between now and August will cover our startup costs for 2007-08. For out years--at tab 4 in the materials we gave you--we're looking at an additional $1.2 million on an ongoing basis. So we are expecting to have additional costs, but because of our delay in implementing the money we got last year, we can cover the startup costs this year.

We'll be asking for it in the main estimates next year, but for this year we think we can husband those resources that way.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Perhaps I could continue with Mr. Leadbeater, because he has been with the commission awhile.

I got the impression, listening to the former commissioner, that things weren't always well between the commission and the Treasury Board. You were having problems, which was why you got the one-shot funding. Has that improved, and can you tell us how that has improved?

[J. Alan Leadbeater]

The creation of the ad hoc parliamentary advisory panel on the funding of officers of Parliament has had enormously beneficial effects. Its mere existence means that the Treasury Board and our office tend to come to agreement more easily on resource needs, knowing that at the end of the day there's a referee that is not the Treasury Board minister. Since the first meeting of the advisory panel for our estimates in the fall of 2005, we have had a very good working relationship with our Treasury Board officials.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

This committee spent a lot of time discussing that panel. Has it been working for a year?

[J. Alan Leadbeater]

It started in the fall of 2005.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Do you have any suggestions as to improvements?

[J. Alan Leadbeater]

I'm going to turn this back over to Mr. Marleau, who was very active in its design, but I will simply say one thing.

We have not engaged in the evaluation exercise of this, but we hope to do it in the fall this year. Part of the design was to have an evaluation where all the officers of Parliament would say how they experienced it and Treasury Board would say how they experienced it. I know that members of the panel are wondering how it fits with these standing committees, but at this point we just haven't done the evaluation exercise.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Thank you, Mr. Tilson.

Monsieur Vincent.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Marleau, for how long have you held this position? I believe it has been for a year.

[Robert Marleau]

I took up the position on January 29, 2007, approximately three months ago.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

What has struck you about the Office of the Information Commissioner over the past three months? What should we improve or change?

[Robert Marleau]

Are you talking about the Office itself or about my responsibilities as a whole?

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Your responsibilities as a whole.

[Robert Marleau]

I spent the first 30 days, virtually the whole of February, studying the substantive issues surrounding the debate on the bill the committee recommended to the minister. I also presented my credentials to the lead ministers.

My priority is to develop, together with Treasury Board, training and performance standards for ATIP coordinators in the various departments. I firmly believe that having recognized professionals in all the departments will allow for a better understanding and application of the act which, in turn, will reduce the number of complaints.

That is why I spoke about the University of Alberta program, which offers an online certificate program in both official languages. It is the one that I will recommend to Treasury Board.

Our priorities are the same as those set out in the act.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

I do not want to hear about the overall priorities, I want to hear about your priorities. We heard that you are 16 investigators short. Is there a personnel shortage? Are there too many investigations? Do you receive many complaints? As you go about your duties, what have you observed about the department?

I want to your vision, not the vision of the two people sitting next to you. I understand that they brief you and guide you, but I want to know what it is that has struck you personally.

[Robert Marleau]

I have been very impressed by the quality of the work carried out by the investigators. We have developed an action plan to address the backlog, not only...

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

I want to know whether you personally have noticed that there is a staff shortage. Is your office overstaffed? Do you receive too many complaints? Are there too many investigations being conducted? I imagine that some employees have said that they are snowed under and that you need to hire more investigators. Do you agree with their assessment of the situation? Could the investigations be handled differently, through mediation or a similar process, for example? Do too many cases proceed to the investigation stage? What is your opinion?

[Robert Marleau]

I share the view of my predecessor. For a number of years, the office did not get enough funding to keep on top of its workload and address the backlog. The committee debated this point last year. Parliament approved additional funding. However, due to a lack of office space, we were unable to hire the 16 or 18 investigators for whom we had been granted funding. A solution was found just as I took up my position: we are going to be able to house our new recruits on the 7th floor of our building. The aim of the three-year plan is to clear the backlog and, in spite of a slight delay, we should be able to do that right on schedule.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Do you think that it would be possible to amend the act in order to reduce the number of investigations? Would it be possible to incorporate a degree of flexibility to avoid systematic recourse to investigations?

You said that an additional 16 to 18 investigators were required,so how many do you already have on staff? How many complaints do your offices investigate each year? How many complaints do investigators handle? Do they deal with 200 a year or with ten?

[Robert Marleau]

This year, we have started 3,527 investigations in all. We have completed 1,863 of them and, as I said earlier, we have addressed 241 of the backlogged cases. Our hands are tied: the act stipulates that all complaints must be investigated. We therefore have no control over the number of complaints we investigate. For a number of years we did not have enough resources; however, fortunately, Parliament provided us with additional resources last year.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Are the investigations...

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

You are out of time, Mr. Vincent.

We'll go to Mr. Van Kesteren.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

If time permits, I'll split my time with my colleague.

I'm following along the lines of Mr. Vincent and Mr. Marleau.

It's good to have you back here. I'm glad to hear that you're settling into the job. And I was really encouraged when I read your opening statement. You state that your priorities are set by statute, but that your mandate is to convince government institutions--these are noble terms, and I mean that, too; when I read this, I thought, this is good--to correct any instances of excessive secrecy without the need for recourse to the courts.

Then if I go down a little farther, you say, “I will not be an advocate for access requesters or an adversary of government”. I take that to mean that there must be a lot of frivolous cases. And I'm wondering--and I know some of my colleagues are going to ask you meatier questions themselves about the budget--whether a lot of the costs that we find in your office are related to frivolous cases. Can you weed those out and, as a result, speed up the process and even make it more efficient?

That's the only question I wanted to ask you.

[Robert Marleau]

I will perhaps ask the deputy commissioner to comment after I make an initial comment, Mr. Chairman.

In the dialogue that takes place with the complainants, if it is frivolous, they can be talked out of it, and quite often, the dialogue with the complainants will make the scope of a potential investigation a lot narrower. So we do everything at the front end to try to make sure the complainant understands what he or she is asking for and what the scope of the statute is, because there is often not a lot of good understanding of what can be asked for and why it can be asked for.

But on the comment as to whether many of them are frivolous, I'd have to ask the deputy commissioner to respond. I don't get that sense early on in the game, but I'll let Mr. Leadbeater comment.